Matt Perger Builds His Own Roaster

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
false1001

#1: Post by false1001 »

First video is pretty simple and nothing most on this forum don't know already, but should be a very interesting series. Judging from the materials on the table he's building/built a fluid bed roaster. I generally agree with most of the conclusions about roasting Matt's espoused in the past, so i'm very excited to see him start developing some solutions.

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Almico
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#2: Post by Almico »

Having roasted on a fluid bed roaster for a few years, I'll be interested to hear his thoughts, especially a year after the "shiny new object" phase has worn off.

I have found that some of my coffees do better with more air and less heat, and other like more heat and less air. That's why I've checked the Loring off my list for my next roaster. It is a marvelous machine for ease of production, but the hard link between airflow and heat sacrifices profile flexibility for me.

Oddly enough, lighter roasted, high density beans like less air and more heat.

Fluid beds like my old Artisan 6 allowed heat control separate from airflow, but there was still a lot of airflow required to loft the beans.

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Chert
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#3: Post by Chert »

I think the fatal flaw of the artisan 6 is the electric coil and heavy fluctuations of heat across the constant airflow. The Loring is gas and can maintain heat with less variability. Maybe such consideration will be an aspect of this, if correct that Perger's is fluid bed design. [looks to be; thanks for the post; I will set aside 6 min to watch the vid (edit)]

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Almico
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#4: Post by Almico »

I just watched it through.

Matt being Matt... 5:30 - "Every single coffee roastery in the world sucks at roasting coffee." "If you ask any roaster they will say that they struggle with consistency." Hum...If you ask any athlete, musician, chef, etc. the same question, they will give you the same answer. It's a pointless point. (is it possible to have a point without a point? It is for Matt.)

I don't know what kind of roasters he's been using, but my roaster has a probe before the drum measuring incoming air, one inside the drum measuring environmental air and one immersed in the bean mass. It gives me a pretty good picture of what's going on.

false1001

#5: Post by false1001 »

Almico wrote: Oddly enough, lighter roasted, high density beans like less air and more heat.
I'm not sure I agree... with my old DIY roaster that was fluid bed-ish I was roasting Nordic light and really enjoying the results. With my Bullet I've started to go slightly more developed and have found it much much easier to roast for espresso and those darker chocolate/sugary/syrupy roasts.
Chert wrote:I think the fatal flaw of the artisan 6 is the electric coil and heavy fluctuations of heat across the constant airflow. The Loring is gas and can maintain heat with less variability. Maybe such consideration will be an aspect of this, if correct that Perger's is fluid bed design. [looks to be; thanks for the post; I will set aside 6 min to watch the vid (edit)]
I'm not familiar with Artisan roasters very well, but I do know Sivetz roasters are absurdly consistent with their heat application. It's always surprised me that the Sivetz design didn't gain more momentum than it did. I've also heard crazy things about the Stronghold S7, which is a combo fluid bed/IR roaster.
Almico wrote: Matt being Matt... 5:30 - "Every single coffee roastery in the world sucks at roasting coffee." "If you ask any roaster they will say that they struggle with consistency." Hum...If you ask any athlete, musician, chef, etc. the same question, they will give you the same answer. It's a pointless point. (is it possible to have a point without a point? It is for Matt.)
Again, not sure I agree. I think the issue for most other arts/professions at the top is diminishing returns, where it takes vast amounts of knowledge, time, and experience to eek out that last one or two percent. I would argue astonishingly few roasters in the world are consistent enough to begin to start worrying about that last one or two percent. From an engineering point of view, raising the bar for the lowest common denominator generally positively effects things at the top as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's a large part of what Matt is talking about as well. The science of roasting coffee is still so young and immature, and so much of that scientific effort is spent on the massive production lines, that I think there's an awful lot of low hanging fruit to tackle for designing roasters that are built to roast under 100kg at a time.

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Chert
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#6: Post by Chert »

lots of good points. When I measured exhaust temp of the HUKY that did not seem very useful. maybe to try again with an intake temp...

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Almico
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#7: Post by Almico »

false1001 wrote: The science of roasting coffee is still so young and immature, and so much of that scientific effort is spent on the massive production lines, that I think there's an awful lot of low hanging fruit to tackle for designing roasters that are built to roast under 100kg at a time.
I hope you're right. I've been looking for the right roaster for a year now. And I'm not even looking to do anything that fancy.

Time is getting short. I have a zoning board meeting on the 19th and if all goes well, I'll be opening another bar and roastery over the next few months and getting into a bit of wholesale. I need a bigger roaster....

John_Doe

#8: Post by John_Doe »

Almico wrote:I just watched it through.

Matt being Matt... 5:30 - "Every single coffee roastery in the world sucks at roasting coffee." "If you ask any roaster they will say that they struggle with consistency." Hum...If you ask any athlete, musician, chef, etc. the same question, they will give you the same answer. It's a pointless point. (is it possible to have a point without a point? It is for Matt.)

I don't know what kind of roasters he's been using, but my roaster has a probe before the drum measuring incoming air, one inside the drum measuring environmental air and one immersed in the bean mass. It gives me a pretty good picture of what's going on.
Yeah I've never been impressed by anything he says/does. He seems to have a fanboy following on Reddit, but that isn't saying much.

My roaster has 3 points of measurement and I have absolutely no problem with consistency and I do every batch hands on. No software, etc.

cccpu

#9: Post by cccpu »

I started hearing about more people getting fed up with what they view as inconsistencies inherent in drum roasters just a week before Matt's video dropped... I also remember wondering why Frans Goddijn had been playing around with them in the past... I am interested to see where all this leads...

https://www.tickettailor.com/events/cisusa/346147

https://wearelookingsideways.com/podcas ... -yli-luoma

https://www.neuhaus-neotec.de/en/neuhau ... /roasters/
LMWDP #583

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Almico
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#10: Post by Almico »

I think most roasters' inconsistencies are due to sloppy process more than anything else. If you are meticulous about your roasting routine, you will eliminate a lot of mid-roast headaches.

That said: Any roaster that is taking in ambient air is going to be inconsistent to some degree. Fluid beds are not immune to this. If the air temp and or humidity in the room changes, so will your roast. How much this really matters is debatable.

The Loring's closed system addresses this nicely, unless you're opening the rear vent as part of your roast profile. But I don't like the idea of the air and heat being linked, nor having a 1500* inferno in the room. I don't need an afterburner where I will be roasting. I'm more comfortable with 600*.

Ideally, a closed system with a gas chromatography-mass spectrometer would be the bomb.