Almico wrote:I think most roasters' inconsistencies are due to sloppy process more than anything else. If you are meticulous about your roasting routine, you will eliminate a lot of mid-roast headaches.

Agreed, enter Scott Rao and Heart Roasters

Almico wrote:That said: Any roaster that is taking in ambient air is going to be inconsistent to some degree. Fluid beds are not immune to this. If the air temp and or humidity in the room changes, so will your roast. How much this really matters is debatable.

The Loring's closed system addresses this nicely, unless you're opening the rear vent as part of your roast profile.

Which is what I would have thought...

But Heart skipped the Loring phase altogether and went straight to fluid bed, which is where I am still reeling and asking questions and looking for answers...

Almico wrote:I hope you're right. I've been looking for the right roaster for a year now. And I'm not even looking to do anything that fancy.

Time is getting short. I have a zoning board meeting on the 19th and if all goes well, I'll be opening another bar and roastery over the next few months and getting into a bit of wholesale. I need a bigger roaster....

Have you considered getting a Sivetz? I've heard they're fantastic for high volume production.

You could also take a wild shot at something like the Stronghold S9. Is it the best decision for your business? Absolutely not, but you'll get some bangin karma for the forum posts about it.

While I agree the info from a roaster is lagging and not complete, saying a metal roaster is a bad idea means he has a lot more to learn. I've been measuring my drum temperature with IR for quite a few roasts now and what I have learned is the metal drum stabilizes heat really well. Especially during development.

Who has a lot more to learn?

In my opinion drum roasters offer many advantages over other types but have antiquated designs that could be easily be addressed, most importantly:

1) Drum temperature (starting) should be measured/recorded on all drum roasters. This input is essential for consistency between batches and between different roast days/conditions. In my experience with measuring drum temp for the past yr it is THE main variable effecting the first third of the roast.

2) The air flow through the roasters are haphazardly designed with cold air coming through vents on the sides of the roaster and traveling to the back of the drum with no though or design to how this happens. Some air gets heated by the burners, some air has basically a straight shot from vent to back of drum without being heated consistently, the hottest air goes straight up to the top of the roaster and just hangs our there.. As air flow is increased or decreased this becomes even more inconsistent. Its ridiculous that more thought isn't put in the air fliow path through the roaster to make sure it is evenly heated.

3) Most roasters are still using bunson burner type burners which suck at heating air and excell only at heating a surface (like a drum). This and #2 lead to overheating of the drum and uneven heating of the air. Some roasters have adopted ribbon burners, etc which are much better for this application but this should be the norm.

For the price that these roasters sell for there is no reason why these issues can't be addressed without increasing prices further.

I built a 7kg fluid bed. It uses german designed torches (2 different sizes). I will be having a larger chamber manufactured according to my design and I will have a 15-20kg roaster.

The key to fluid bed IS fire. Sivetz had great fans for loft and they just blasted the inlet of air with the package burner. It was perfect hot air. Electric elements just cant do what fire and air do.

If someone wants to profile roast, there is nothing more precise then an air fired roaster.

cccpu wrote:But Heart skipped the Loring phase altogether and went straight to fluid bed, which is where I am still reeling and asking questions and looking for answers...

Then they need to change their website. It still shows a UG15 and UG60 https://www.heartroasters.com/pages/about

Listen to what Wille says about drum roasters and the UG's here:
https://wearelookingsideways.com/podcas ... -yli-luoma

freeadvice wrote:I built a 7kg fluid bed. It uses german designed torches (2 different sizes). I will be having a larger chamber manufactured according to my design and I will have a 15-20kg roaster.

The key to fluid bed IS fire. Sivetz had great fans for loft and they just blasted the inlet of air with the package burner. It was perfect hot air. Electric elements just cant do what fire and air do.

If someone wants to profile roast, there is nothing more precise then an air fired roaster.

I found following a profile very easy with my fluid bed. Almost too easy. Roasting great coffee on it, however, was a challenge. I thought it was good until I got my drum roaster and modified it for data logging, power and adjustability. My intention was to keep them both running side by side and compare coffees back and forth, but the coffee on the drum was so much sweeter, a level of sweetness never achieved on my air roaster, that I couldn't see a point in using it any more and sold it.

Interestingly, roasted beans were larger on the air roaster and very consistent in color. They also smelled better out of the coloring bin. But it was very hard to lose the astringent character that seemed inherent in every coffee at every roast level, but especially lighter roasts. I chalked it up to the green and use roasted coffee darker to minimize it.

Beans are smaller on the drum roaster and smell a bit smoky for several minutes, but that goes away and I do not taste it in the brew at all. Quite the contrary. There is no dryness at all, even coffees that I roast in 7 minutes and drop at 1:00 and 14% post 1C.

Also interesting, I did not notice a difference in moisture loss. My roasting records show that has remained consistent for the same coffees roasted to the same levels.

cccpu wrote:Listen to what Wille says about drum roasters and the UG's here:
https://wearelookingsideways.com/podcas ... -yli-luoma

Sorry, I don't have an hour and a half to listen.