I mostly play around with speeds and length during the phases. Maybe you are (or maybe it's me) mistaking the "Roa profile" as just a generic decreasing ROR S-curve. Rao style is what's popular if you want a cleaner more achievable dark roast. Lighter "Nordic roast", which I don't consider to be acid bombs, unless you bomb the roast or Italian roast. All of these "styles" are something I try and do separately to one bean to see if it works or not. And if it works or not is the idea behind if it was good or not. I would argue that you don't know what roast level you actually like and you are like me, tasting around seeing what's out there. If I could give an analogy, landing in a roast degree (C,C+,FC, etc) is like landing a plane and the darker the roast the less runway you have to land on.

The French Dude wrote:I don't tell that Rao style doesn't make good coffe or not... I want to know if there is other style that make good coffee

There is precious little information out there regarding "commonly accepted" roast profiles. Every roaster is different, every coffee is different and everyone's taste is different. Scott is virtually the only one that has stepped out to try and give specific roasting advice.

I own the Roast Magazine "Book of Roast. It's a compilation of 100s of articles on coffee roasting from the magazine over the years. It's confounding how little helpful information there is in that book on actually how to roast coffee.

I learned a very helpful principle many years ago with regards to learning very complicated skills. Duplication before innovation. Try to do it as well as the professional before trying to do it differently or better.

Scott's "rules" are not really a style. They operate well within a fairly wide range coffees and coffee roast profiles. He is highly successful as a roaster and coffee professional. Before trying to roast coffee outside his suggested norms, trying roasting coffee as least as well as he does first.

Almico wrote: Scott is virtually the only one that has stepped out to try and give specific roasting advice.

This simply isn't true. It might be your opinion, but it bears little fact.

A great deal of what Scott has "taught" has come from contributors right here on HB ( Ed Bourgeois ROR) among others. Folks like Rob Hoos, Chris Schooley, Neal Wilson, Willem Boot, etc have shared a lot of very specific, very useful insights into coffee roasting over the years. But no single person has done anything close to the hive-mind of passionate and determined hobbyists who regularly share their thoughts and experiments right here on HB.

OldmatefromOZ wrote:Search slow start fast finish roast profile and Diedrich roasting.

Get your charge temp, batch size and starting gas so that the roast naturally slows down by itself as the beans start to change from pale green to yellow. BT ROR will plateau slightly. Can play around with how long / slow you go through yellow to the start of caramelisation, slowly build momentum so that you hit first crack at 12 to 13 min, drop when desired. Prob want to hit 2nd crack 3 to 3:30 later.

This style is the complete antithesis of anything RAO preaches. If done right it would produce a rich flavored coffee which might be more savoury, full, roasty / robust, depends on a lot of variables.

Nice.
That's exactly what I want to know
I will check that asap!

crunchybean wrote: If I could give an analogy, landing in a roast degree (C,C+,FC, etc) is like landing a plane and the darker the roast the less runway you have to land on.

I love that!

TomC wrote: Folks like Rob Hoos, Chris Schooley, Neal Wilson, Willem Boot, etc have shared a lot of very specific, very useful insights into coffee roasting over the years.

Thx!

Is there a place where those informations are easily available?

Google, Youtube and the search function here.

I hear what you're saying, Tom. But I've been voraciously searching and exploring and reading everything I can on coffee roasting over the past 5 years. And yes, most of what I have learned has come from H-B, and you in particular. But I must say, my thirst for coffee knowledge far outpaces the supply.

Yes, I believe Scott has likely gleaned much of his knowledge from those that have gone before. I have heard of all those people you mentioned, but honestly, I have not learned much from any of them because I have not met and do not know them. Maybe I've learned from them second had through H-B. I've read Rob's book and most every article Willem Boot has authored. Not much of it has made my coffee any better or convinced me to pay them to teach me about coffee. I've tried the Diedrich style of roasting and found it wanting. I've read Chris' articles as well and nothing jumped out that changed my coffee roasting life. As a matter of fact, the more I read from the coffee "gurus", the more I find that they tend to contradict each other and much of what I have read leaves me feeling the author prefers to demonstrate how much they know about coffee rather than efforting to try and make someone else better at it.

On the other hand, Scott's very practical suggestions and generalizations have changed my life...literally. It gave me the tools and confidence to quit the day job and make coffee my livelihood. From his blog alone I have learned to roast and brew the best coffee in my area. Much of his shared knowledge comes from experience: "the last 1000 times I did it this way, this happened". "When I do this, every time this happens." No, his axioms are not the be all and end all. But it's very solid information and as much as I tried, very hard to refute.

Scott is in the unusual position of working directly for 100s of roasters and coffee shops with the express interest in making their coffee better immediately. That's a tall order.

I don't need to be the best roaster/barista in the world. I have no desire to enter any contests. I just want to be better than most and run a successful coffee business. Most coffee drinkers do not need "the best". They just want good coffee and want it consistently. From applying Scott's very simple coffee doctrine I think I have accomplished that. More than a few have told me "that was the best coffee I have ever had". Ding, goes the bell.

And yet I'm still looking to learn more and more and more.

OldmatefromOZ wrote:Search slow start fast finish roast profile and Diedrich roasting.

Get your charge temp, batch size and starting gas so that the roast naturally slows down by itself as the beans start to change from pale green to yellow. BT ROR will plateau slightly. Can play around with how long / slow you go through yellow to the start of caramelisation, slowly build momentum so that you hit first crack at 12 to 13 min, drop when desired. Prob want to hit 2nd crack 3 to 3:30 later.

This style is the complete antithesis of anything RAO preaches. If done right it would produce a rich flavored coffee which might be more savory, full, roasty / robust, depends on a lot of variables.

I believe you meant to say the BT curve plateaus. The BT RoR curve dips significantly as the roast slows down. It then needs to rise to complete the fast finish.

I have tried this several times with my fluid bed roaster and never found a rising RoR to help a roast, ever. I am willing to try it on my new drum roaster, but it will have to be a small batch, because recovering from the slow down, where heat momentum is shed from the drum, is hard to recover from without BTUs in reserve.

Nothing ventured...

I have had very promising results on the "diedrich style", though to be honest I had no idea it was called that.

Looks like Almico is a bit of a Rao fan...