Colombia Las Margaritas, "Bourbon Noir" - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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Boldjava

Postby Boldjava » Dec 18, 2018, 9:12 am

dale_cooper wrote:I got 5 lbs - Royal seemed to roast this very light..


Remember, those are cupping roasts (less than one min first!!), not production or "drinking" roasts. Times will always run short.
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Boldjava

Postby Boldjava » Dec 18, 2018, 9:20 am

Chert wrote:... I am drinking french press of it now and as far as berries, floral or spice, I would call this one berries, dark berries like the black ones. Tamarack Cellars 2003 red blend expressed as coffee. Okay okay I'm getting carried away...


Not to worry. I enjoy poets.

Extrapolating from your post, drinking this black, I like the short roast. Were I to run this through the Cremina for cortados, I would go longer, bringing out a chocolate note that a bud in Arizona put on top of those berries.
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dale_cooper

Postby dale_cooper » Dec 18, 2018, 10:29 am

Boldjava wrote:Remember, those are cupping roasts (less than one min first!!), not production or "drinking" roasts. Times will always run short.


1. Are they? I wonder because in their analysis, they go straight into their brew recipes - using a variety of devices. I doubt they roast for cupping, and roast again to brew, especially when not stating how the roast would be different.

2. To be honest, I've never understood the practice of doing a "super light cupping" roast. As far as going super light to let the bean express itself - I could do a light "cupping" roast and would totally be missing flavors that I would never have known could come out unless I went darker or developed further. Sorry, not taking this thread down that rabbit trail. PM me to explain this methodology if you'd like. :)

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Boldjava

Postby Boldjava » Dec 18, 2018, 11:39 am

dale_cooper wrote:1. Are they? I wonder because in their analysis, they go straight into their brew recipes - using a variety of devices. I doubt they roast for cupping, and roast again to brew, especially when not stating how the roast would be different.


They are pros. They know their coffee and how it prepares. They are extrapolating based on a couple of preps.

2. To be honest, I've never understood the practice of doing a "super light cupping" roast. As far as going super light to let the bean express itself - I could do a light "cupping" roast and would totally be missing flavors that I would never have known could come out unless I went darker or developed further. Sorry, not taking this thread down that rabbit trail. PM me to explain this methodology if you'd like. :)


You are not 'rabbit holing.' Valuable question. Been at importers and around their tables. 12 people are coming and going, making notes. Run your cursor over Royal's notes and you will see the number of people who came up with a particular note.

I don't do all that well w/cupping roasts either. I believe it is a practiced art and your practiced palate improves in its ability to discern. I can detect quality and what I am interested in. Defects are apparent to me. But infinite amounts of expressive notes? No. Nor are they to one person. Those are consolidated notes of 10 or so people, with a few 'super cuppers' (which I am certainly not) thrown in.

When I have samples, I roast as if it were my own roast, not as a cupping roast.
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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Dec 18, 2018, 4:48 pm

I updated my post above with cupping notes: Colombia Las Margaritas, "Bourbon Noir"
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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Dec 18, 2018, 4:52 pm

As to Royal's roasts: the super fast one was on the Ikawa, and air roasts do tend to be faster than drum roasts. Their other roasts were on a Quest M3, and although I have never driven one, I've seen some very good roasters note that they get good results with shorter-than-typical development times on that roaster. And many like short development times for naturals, so if we think of this as a quasi-natural, one minute might not be too crazy, especially given their equipment. So these might really be brew-focused profiles, just adapted to the coffee and equipment.

And while the Quest roasts were dropped at 1 min dev, they did add 18F past FC-start-temp over that window, so they were still charging along with lots of heat.

With that said, I drop based on smell, and mine still smelled raw at one minute of development. But my USRC is a very different beast than an Ikawa or a Quest, so take that for what little it is worth!
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Chert

Postby Chert » Dec 18, 2018, 5:08 pm

[creative nickname] wrote: and mine still smelled raw at one minute of development. !


What are you getting at that tryer as 'raw'?
I have this year started to understand the acetic type vinegary scent off the tryer shortly after 1C and hope to learn when to drop by smell. How do you think of those roastaromas?

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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Dec 18, 2018, 5:12 pm

Underdeveloped coffee has an acrid aspect to the aroma, coming from chlorogenic acids. It is not exactly like vinegar but it is in that ballpark. I generally won't drop coffee until those smells have dissipated and some sweeter scents are taking their place.
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Boldjava

Postby Boldjava » Dec 18, 2018, 9:11 pm

[creative nickname] wrote:Underdeveloped coffee has an acrid aspect to the aroma, coming from chlorogenic acids. It is not exactly like vinegar but it is in that ballpark. I generally won't drop coffee until those smells have dissipated and some sweeter scents are taking their place.

Bingo.
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Chert

Postby Chert » Dec 18, 2018, 9:18 pm

Boldjava wrote:Bingo.

[creative nickname] wrote:Underdeveloped coffee has an acrid aspect to the aroma, coming from chlorogenic acids. It is not exactly like vinegar but it is in that ballpark. I generally won't drop coffee until those smells have dissipated and some sweeter scents are taking their place.


Is getting that transition in the schnozz, a "bingo" moment? or did you always pick up on it?

Bready change at dry end I sensed pretty early and I've noticed that acrid chlorogenic note for a while, but I haven't consistently noticed a transition to sweeter in the tryer so I don't target that rather usually drop at a preset %dev level. This coffee smells so fabulous in the whole bean form, maybe it is a good trainer for picking up on the evolution out of chlorogenic to "sweeter scents".