Bumpy ROR (among other issues)

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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Jfsgbtx

Postby Jfsgbtx » Jan 09, 2019, 1:59 pm

Hello all. I'm less than 10 roasts into my new Arc 800 from Crop to Cup. It was a Christmas present to myself and I am still very much getting familiar with roasting in general as well as my new machine. I am having several issues with airflow and gas settings and trying to dial in my ROR and temperature.

My question for this brain trust is why am I not seeing a smoothe ROR curve? It seems to be very bumpy/jumpy and I am trying to determine whether it is due to an airflow or heat setting or due to a thermocouple. I have seen this on all the roasts I have done with Artisan hooked up. I realize that my ET curve and development times could use some major work as well...again just starting out and trying to figure out what I am doing.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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roastimo

Postby roastimo » Jan 09, 2019, 3:35 pm

"I realize that my ET curve and development times could use some major work as well"

The ET curve looks disturbing because it drops low. The BT and RoR curves seem to match up. The jaggedness of the RoR does not need to be seen as the problem, but it can be smoothed out . That's at a glance, my opinion.

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roastimo

Postby roastimo » Jan 09, 2019, 4:00 pm

The curves can be made smoother for instance by "post roast smoothing". I use it sometimes, although more detail in progress is desirable.

Found in the menu under configure curves

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There are other measures to be taken for smoothing, just showing this as the ET curve looks more troubling, likely wrong, while the RoR looks consistent with other output.

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EvergreenBuzzBuzz

Postby EvergreenBuzzBuzz » Jan 09, 2019, 4:22 pm

Before you roast again, please review this page on Curves and the page on Phases.

https://artisan-scope.org/docs/curves/

This explains the critical settings of the Curve dialog. It also explains when the smoothing is applied during or after roast.

These are critical settings so take your time here. As you adjust the settings, consider if the results allow you to understand and interpret your results so that you can improve taste in the cup. For some, too much variation in the curves becomes hard to interpret so they turn up the smoothing.

PS I am also confused what happened to ET, why did it just fall off?
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Almico

Postby Almico » Jan 09, 2019, 4:26 pm

I haven't done my first drum roast yet, but am about to any moment.

It appears to me that your initial RoR could be stronger. You seemed to have warmed it up enough, so maybe try a smaller bean charge. Most roaster mgfs overrate their products' capacities.

Not sure why you ET is dropping off a cliff. No Bueno. I picked this up from Scott Rao's recent blogpost:

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Notice the gas settings at the bottom. He recommends gradually reducing the gas.

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Jan 09, 2019, 5:41 pm

It's a matter of how you want your data feed to be managed in the roast itself that reflects smooth or bumpy RoR curve. Some people want to include all the variances in the deltaBT curve so the "smooth deltas" value would be at it's lowest, in this case 1. As Michael already stated, it's about how you want your data displayed and not necessarily about a getting a "smooth" RoR curve (unless of course a smoother curve is more helpful to you).

In regards to gas and air settings, you will need to spend time with your roaster to really latch onto how everything behaves during the roast. Once you get to the place where you can move through a roast being able to consistently predict the next step in the roast itself you can make more informed adjustments to gas and air that show up in the cup quality.

The ET temp drop makes no sense; it could be a few things, maybe your probe is malfunctioning somehow.... :?

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EvergreenBuzzBuzz

Postby EvergreenBuzzBuzz » Jan 09, 2019, 6:08 pm

edpiep wrote:It's a matter of how you want your data feed to be managed in the roast itself that reflects smooth or bumpy RoR curve. Some people want to include all the variances in the deltaBT curve so the "smooth deltas" value would be at it's lowest, in this case 1.


Evan you can actually go to "0" for no smoothing at all.
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Jfsgbtx

Postby Jfsgbtx » Jan 09, 2019, 6:24 pm

edpiep wrote:The ET temp drop makes no sense; it could be a few things, maybe your probe is malfunctioning somehow.... :?


Thanks for the helpful info. I'm pretty sure the drop in ET was due to me cranking up the exhaust and leaving the heat low. This coupled with cutting the gas for the first 60 seconds leads me to think the BT would climb but the ET would drop. Going to try again tonight with higher gas temps and see if that helps.

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Jan 09, 2019, 7:42 pm

EvergreenBuzzBuzz wrote:Evan you can actually go to "0" for no smoothing at all.


Good to know :)

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Jan 09, 2019, 7:44 pm

Jfsgbtx wrote:Thanks for the helpful info. I'm pretty sure the drop in ET was due to me cranking up the exhaust and leaving the heat low. This coupled with cutting the gas for the first 60 seconds leads me to think the BT would climb but the ET would drop. Going to try again tonight with higher gas temps and see if that helps.


Yeah, if you blast too much air through a low heat/gas environment you will strip all the heat out of the drum which would definitely explain the crash of ET