Book: Coffee Roasting Made Simple by Raimond Feil - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
crunchybean

Postby crunchybean » Dec 23, 2018, 10:28 am

Sounds very unoriginal quite frankly. I wrote an amount on profile development and I will be..disappointed, if I see things from other roasters whom I would say I already owe a payment for an hour of their time since they willingly gave info for free. I hope this isn't another aeropress dice fiasco. If not, I look forward to purchasing the book after someone has reviewed it. Good luck and thanks for the contents summary!

RaimondF

Postby RaimondF » Jan 11, 2019, 12:51 am

#10:Post by Neil.Pryde » Dec 23, 2018, 3:13 pm
E-book please,or payment via Paypal for the book. Thank's


Paypal payment is now working ;)
E-book will take some time.

doktor1909

Postby doktor1909 » Feb 05, 2019, 6:04 pm

Dear Raimond Feil.

Thank you for having written a new book about roasting. There is always need for new books about roasting coffee.
The practical value of your suggestions is rather doubtful for me. My equipment is a 1kg drum -roaster with gas and air control, and I work with my senses and Artisan saoftware. I would have liked to see some real curves and not only sketches and tabellas. As I have digital probes only, the chapter about reading an analog probe on a Probat sample roaster is useless for me. As Scott Rao showed and discussed, the flick- and crash problem is best studied by watching the Delta-BT (and ET?) curve?! How to avoid these is subject of his master curses.
Conclusion for me: Roasting can be shown simply, but it is definetly not!!
Lots of good ideas and suggestions, and common talks about ripeness and aroma, but as ever-- to be translated to ones own senses and equipment. May be one hour with you on a roasting machine would be worth much more. Nevertheless I will read the book more times.

doktor1909

Postby doktor1909 » Feb 06, 2019, 5:25 pm

For those, who will not read the book, I will try to report his core statements in short.

0. What everyone wants is peak and balance. = philosophie ??! for me it is a goal.
0a. There are only two phases 1= before, 2 is after C1
1 .Find temperature of 1. crack.
2. Try to get there in 10 minutes.
3. Charge on the way down with different temperatures as suggested, or as found out by oneself.
Make your final decision on basis of taste chracteristics.
4.Turning point and its exit occur naturally.
Do not apply too much heat at any time of the roast but enough to keep the profile on its path.
5.After turning point find out the line adjustment point and the line steepness to the C1 (mostly around 200°C)
Watch the time (10 min. to C1 ) and look for a straight line. Experiment with different steepnesses.
6. Make heat adjustments in time.
7. Detect beginning of the C1 by smelling the aroma change - sharp tones!
8. Turn the burner to a minimum just before or at C1 to a minimum for 10-30 sec. to avoid flicks and crashes.
9. No curves in the second phase.
10. For most traditional varieties the length of second phase (beginning of C1 to the end of roast) is 85°sec. = 1 min 25 sec.
11. Adjust heat to get to the desired end point in time. (mostly 208-213°C)
12. Quick cooling is essential. Bean temp. should be under 40° C in 4 min.

General advice:

You can't fix failures in the first phase with the second phase.
The longer the roast, the less acidities.
Loss of fruity acidity creates unpleasant sweetness.
The longer the roast, the more bitterness.
Too short roasts manifest in green and grassy taste.
Burnt taste = too hot
Baked taste = too long
Underdeveloped acidity and underdeveloped sugars create flat taste.

He gives special adsvice for Loring roasters. 10kg!
--------------------------- for different varieties- i.e.Tanzania washed C1- 205°C in 10min. End 213,3°C in 11:25 min


I will add more later, if wanted.
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JavaMD

Postby JavaMD » Feb 07, 2019, 11:17 am

Good Summary ... I have also read the book ...

The one thing I took away that was VERY Different from Scott Rao's approach was Raimond Feil advocated a STRAIGHT roasting BT Line ... which to me would mean your RoR would have to be FLAT. He advocates picking a straight line from where the BT comes from the "turning point" after the beans and probe are the same temp and propping up the heat to keep the BT from falling to allow you to move in as straight of a line as you can to the 10 minute first crack point. Not sure how I could do this without having to increase heat during the roast to keep the RoR steadily and the BT temp steadily rising which is a very different concept from a slowly declining RoR. I stand corrected if I have this wrong. He Does discourage from humps and dips in this line and states it takes away from the sweetness of the roast. The straight RoR seems to me to be a setup for the first crack crash and you would have to dip power to prevent it for sure.

He also advocates post first crack development with a straight line (Flat RoR) also ... although of a different trajectory till your finish point.

Also not mentioned in your post was his advocating chewing the bean to get its flavor and a hint at the hardness/brittleness/texture of the bean which has its merits as a sensory input.

Was a good read but haven't had much success with trying to follow my interpretation of his roasting style - if I got it correct.

Erhard do you agree with my assessment of what Raimond was advocating?

Maybe Raimond could way in on this.

Steve Egge

AlexGS

Postby AlexGS » Feb 07, 2019, 2:07 pm

JavaMD wrote:The one thing I took away that was VERY Different from Scott Rao's approach ...


Could it be that Rao uses Probats and Raimond uses Loring? I just got another book with very non-Rao advise and keep wondering if this is more conduction vs convection styles of roasting actually?

doktor1909

Postby doktor1909 » Feb 07, 2019, 4:11 pm

Chewing is a good test, I did always without advice from anyone. It clearly has some merits. "a mouth brew?"
I do not know whether Raimond Feil had a setup of probes and programs where he could watch flicks and cracks.
The basis of his "philosophy" is to bring out all natural potentials and aromas of ripe coffee beans.
He wants to create natural roasts, juice, sweet and persisting etc... as everyone!
For me the real intention of a coffee bean is to end as a new coffee bush and not aromatically burnt in a cup.
Same is true for olives.

I myself have the problem, that I am a poor tester and cannot distinguish a crashfree roast from the others.
But I try to get curves with ideal D-BT as recommended by Scott Rao and hope for a "wow" experience.
I did not have until now.

I want to inform you that there is a podcast with Raimond Feil:
https://europeancoffeetrip.com/raimond-feil/

Have a good day!

Erhard