Aillio Infrared Bean Temperature Sensor IBTS

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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hankua

Postby hankua » Jan 19, 2019, 2:37 am

"Our New Infrared Bean Temperature Sensor (IBTS) is poised to forever change the way you roast."

This is going to be interesting how Aillio's new IBTS does in the field AND if the technology is adapted by others.

https://link.medium.com/8xPgkm27AT

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Balthazar_B

Postby Balthazar_B » Jan 19, 2019, 10:52 am

A question related to a passage in the article. Asking because I don't know.

Re: But once the emissivity is set to match that of roasting coffee, the temperature readings will be very accurate, and also very, very fast.

Thoughts on how much variability there may be between beans that would affect IR emissivity during roasting? E.g., native density, type (arabica vs. robusta), processing (natural vs. washed), etc.

Thanks!
- John

LMWDP # 577

crunchybean

Postby crunchybean » replying to Balthazar_B » Jan 19, 2019, 11:20 am

Based on my understanding, those things do not matter because IR measures the surface temperature. However things might get a little shakey when the beans start bleeding oil changing the surface texture from matte to glossy. I wonder if that would be a problem or not.

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Jake_G
Team HB

Postby Jake_G » Jan 19, 2019, 11:57 am

Yeaj,Yeah, this concerns me, as well.

Emissivity is a complicated beast. IR sensors do not measure the surface temperature. They measure the thermal energy that is visible from the surface of an object. Case in point is trying to measure a chrome group head with an IR device. Chrome reflects IR wavelength light, so you read the temperature of of the reflection off the group, not the temperature of the group. In my experience working with Omega IR sensors, you have to calibrate the sensors any time the surface finish or color changes. I use these regularly to monitor the heat build un in polyurethane nip rollers and they are sensitive enough that a blue roll cover will read a significantly lower temperature than a black cover when the core of the rolls are at the same temp.

What this means for coffee remains to be seen, but I think the end result will be a reliably consistent and high-precision reading, even if it isn't particularly accurate.

We could get grumpy about the fact that a green bean at 375°F would look different to an IR sensor than a bean entering FC at the same temp would look, but the fact is that a green bean can't exist at 375°, so these issues may be more academic than actual issues with real-world scenarios... Also, I think that as the bean roasts and changes color, it will emit more thermal energy (emissivity approaches 1) than when in the earlier phases, so the accuracy should get better as the roast progresses, which is way better than the alternative.

Cheers!

- Jake

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Balthazar_B

Postby Balthazar_B » Jan 19, 2019, 12:24 pm

Thanks, Phil and Jake. What you say makes sense.

Since Aillio has equipped their most recent production run with the new IR sensor -- which SM sold out almost as quickly as Denis sells out with every Monolith run -- there will be plenty of field reports under many variable conditions forthwith. Not to mention that all(?) existing Bullets will be capable of getting retrofitted with the new IR sensor -- an upgrade that can be user-installed, apparently -- so not unlikely a lot of additional data points will be reported as well.
- John

LMWDP # 577

EddyQ

Postby EddyQ » Jan 19, 2019, 1:48 pm

Does anyone know exactly where this IR sensor will be located? It seem to me, the glass would always be needing some cleaning.

Second, I wonder how they prevent the IR from a hot drum from effecting the measurements. It's kind of like trying to measure a dim bulb intensity with other bright (likely brighter) light sources around it.

Think the technology is great if implemented properly.
I sure would love one of these to measure my drum surface temps to go along with my MET air temp probe.

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Balthazar_B

Postby Balthazar_B » Jan 19, 2019, 8:13 pm

Ed, over at the official Aillio forum on FB, there are descriptions of how to install the IR device (and how it's designed to keep crap away during the roasting process).
- John

LMWDP # 577

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TomC
Team HB

Postby TomC » Jan 19, 2019, 8:48 pm

EddyQ wrote:Does anyone know exactly where this IR sensor will be located? It seem to me, the glass would always be needing some cleaning.


There is no more glass in front of the sensor.

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hankua

Postby hankua » Jan 19, 2019, 10:12 pm

Jonas and the Aillio team have figuratively "thrown down the gauntlet" to the general roasting community; saying in essence; what you've been recording all these years is inaccurate. (My words not his) And backed all of it up by putting the IBTS into production, that's moxie.. Real time streaming data, if that proves out it could be a game changer......

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yakster

Postby yakster » Jan 19, 2019, 10:16 pm

My first real roast with the new V1.5 Bullet from the latest Sweet Maria's batch with 472 grams of Colombia Vereda Buesaquito. I have nothing much to compare this to, but I dropped it after first crack and it smells pretty good.

I tried the coffee--in my Behmor BraZen and pulled as a shot on my Cafelat Robot--the next morning and it was delicious. The aroma and flavors were much stronger and more distinct than what I've been getting lately from my Behmor 1600 roaster. I pretty much copied other's roast profiles as far as power levels and fan levels for the roast since I don't really have a feel yet for this roaster, but I left the drum speed at full as recommended for the first 10 roasts.

Image
-Chris

LMWDP # 272