2013 HB Homeroasters Competition - discussion thread - Page 9

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.

Do you prefer a roasting competition with only a few coffee choices or many?

Poll ended at Sep 04, 2013, 3:44 pm

Few
26
87%
Many
4
13%
 
Total votes: 30

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rama
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Postby rama » Oct 14, 2013, 10:25 am

another_jim wrote:If you are running late, Henry and I will accept entries shipped Monday via 2 day service.


I've got my entry ready to go, but there's a slight problem here- today is a US Postal holiday:
http://about.usps.com/news/events-calen...lidays.htm

UPS and FedEx are probably open but would be a pain for me and possibly not even an option for others. Thoughts?

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another_jim
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Postby another_jim » Oct 14, 2013, 2:03 pm

Oops.

I can take late entries till Thursday. PM Henry if he doesn't respond to see what arrangements he can make.

I was silly to make the deadline a Monday; sorry.

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rama
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Postby rama » Oct 14, 2013, 5:34 pm

Here are my notes on the Kenya. Sorry this is coming so late, roasted it for the first time yesterday.

Tried it two ways, identical drop temps and time from start of first crack to drop. The only difference being one was finished in 10:40, the other in 11:41. Bean surfaces look identical. Culled maybe 20 beans from each 8oz batch to discard the underdeveloped or misshapened beans.

Great creamy mouth feel in both cups, my favorite characteristic in this coffee. Brightness is restrained (for a Kenya), allowing for faster roasts and times to completion without having a total acid bomb.

Roast 1:
Image


Roast 2:
Image


Initially I had a hard time distinguishing between the two, but then it became more apparent Roast 1 (10:40 total time) was brighter, and roast 2 (11:41) had a bit more allspice notes. In a blind taste-off, Roast 1 was more distinguished. The extra brightness made it stand out and make Roast 2's spice notes harder to pick off.

Typically I roast closer to Roast 2's profile, and find it more pleasant as a morning cup. However in a competition situation, as Jim says, you need to separate yourself from the pack somehow, which Roast 1 does with its combination of brightness and mouthfeel. The shorter roast may have left some flavors undeveloped, but I didn't really miss them (maybe the judges will). My belief is the 3 minutes post start of first is critical to ensuring you don't end up with a "cupping roast", even with the fast overall roast time.

I didn't have the time to try a melange of the two and see if they compliment each other somehow, so I went with 100% Roast 1 as my entry.

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rama
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Postby rama » Oct 15, 2013, 12:56 pm

rama wrote:I think this is a decision each roaster should make depending on what they want to achieve, but IMO no coffee for brew improves with age beyond the first 24 hours.


Thinking about this further and the for-brew competition logistics, those who wait to the last minute and do an overnight delivery, or better yet hand deliver the day of, will have a distinct advantage IMO.

I feel using this approach goes against the spirit of the competition, so my entry was roasted last Sunday (which even with freezer time on both ends, is bordering on "too old" for my tastes.) If others agree, the rules for future competitions could include a "roasted no later than xxxx date" clause to even the playing field.

This probably isn't as dramatic for the espresso competition, but I wouldn't know.

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Postby chang00 » Oct 15, 2013, 9:20 pm

Received many more coffee today. The default is they will go into the freezer, but if anybody changes his/her mind, please let me know.

So far one competitor decided not to freeze.

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MSH
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Postby MSH » Oct 16, 2013, 1:26 pm

I was able to get my brewing entry out the door to Henry yesterday. I wasn't sure if it was going to happen since my son decided to arrive to the world a bit earlier than expected (early Monday morning), but I was able to cut out from the hospital yesterday and get the beans vacpacked and into USPS hands.
I roasted my entry on late Friday afternoon. Original intent was to allow the beans to rest until Monday morning (60 hours-ish rest) before vacpacking but they got an additional 36 hours. Not ideal but it is what it is.

Like Rama I did two different roast profiles, however, my profile was a slower ramp to 1C but a faster 1C-EOR. Both roasts had a ~9min 1C. One profile had a 2:30 1C-EOR and the other 2:45. Cupped after 24 hrs I felt both were very similar but the shorter profile had a bit more "punch"--> slightly more bright and the darker fruit flavors were more evident vs the longer profile which had a bit more spice/less fruit. Both profiles have nice creaminess and very defined brown sugar finish. I was targeting to go a little deeper than City but shy of a City+ roast. I think the shorter profile hit that mark with the longer profile right at the doorstep of City+.
The shorter profile I submitted had a bit over 14% moisture loss.

At the end of the day, I don't know how my roast will really stand out from the other competitors since I played it a bit more safe. I think it's nicely developed and insanely drinkable but it would have been nice to have more time and green to play with some different profiles. I would have liked to try out a slightly faster to ramp to 1C with shorter 1C-EOR development (1:45-2:00 neighborhood).
I like this coffee alot and I think it's fairly approachable. My step father, who is pretty much a Peets/Starbucks guy, really enjoyed it when I brewed him up some of the longer profile roast yesterday.

rama wrote:Thinking about this further and the for-brew competition logistics, those who wait to the last minute and do an overnight delivery, or better yet hand deliver the day of, will have a distinct advantage IMO.

I feel using this approach goes against the spirit of the competition, so my entry was roasted last Sunday (which even with freezer time on both ends, is bordering on "too old" for my tastes.) If others agree, the rules for future competitions could include a "roasted no later than xxxx date" clause to even the playing field.

This probably isn't as dramatic for the espresso competition, but I wouldn't know.


With the utmost due respect Rama, I'm a bit torn on this suggestion since I believe the amount of time each competitor elects to rest their coffee is part of the "game". It seems like many coffees (especially many of the Kenyans) seem to benefit from 48-96 hours of rest before they are "primetime". Seems to me the dry aroma peaks shortly after roast (12-24 hours) in most all coffees, but the resulting cup often times tastes better for me after 2-4 days rest. So at the end of the day you might lose a bit on the dry aroma scoring with longer rest but gain points on flavor, balance, etc. I'm far from an expert here..just my 2 cents/personal experience.

Anyways, good luck everyone! I'm happy I was able to get an entry submitted considering the circumstances. It's great to get the valuable feedback from the SM judges and I hope to see the competition to continue in the future. Thanks again Jim and Henry for organizing this year! I look forward to doing it again next year.

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Postby endlesscycles » Oct 16, 2013, 1:45 pm

Gaturiri: 9:30min 392F crack, 10:45min 400F drop
Retana: 9:30min 392F crack, 12:30min 415F drop

9 days rest on both aiming for increased extraction / sweetness.... I hope.
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rama
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Postby rama » Oct 16, 2013, 11:26 pm

MSH wrote:With the utmost due respect Rama, I'm a bit torn on this suggestion since I believe the amount of time each competitor elects to rest their coffee is part of the "game". It seems like many coffees (especially many of the Kenyans) seem to benefit from 48-96 hours of rest before they are "primetime".


No disrespect taken, I'm no expert either. Also congrats, Dad, you win 1st place for the most dedication to the competition!

endlesscycles wrote:9 days rest on both aiming for increased extraction / sweetness.... I hope.


Wow! Looking like I'm in the minority on the short rest times.

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Postby Boldjava » Oct 16, 2013, 11:36 pm

rama wrote:Wow! Looking like I'm in the minority on the short rest times.


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Postby TomC » Oct 17, 2013, 2:15 am

farmroast wrote:Any experiences with the aging of a light roast of the Kenyan? It would be day 10 on the 18th. of the roast. Not sure if it arrives mon/tues is necessary for Henry to freeze til fri.


So, some random thoughts about the coffees, because I imagine everything is in and hitting the judges table soon... My thoughts on the Kenyan might line up with Rama if I understand his position correctly. I think this Kenya brought plenty of big, bold flavors and tangy acidity. To me, it shouted, didn't whisper. I think since we all had to use the same green, the one that shouts over the rest will shout the best, barring any flaws in the roast profile (it will be interesting to hear from Henry how many total submissons there were, but I'm guessing only about 8 or 9 max).All that meaning, the deck could be stacked by entering a really fresh roast.

This drip submission is the first time I entered a coffee to the competition that wasn't sorted pre and post roast. My espresso submission got meticulous sorting. I noted on this Kenyan a fair amount of peaberries that alter the roast profile demands, so it will be interesting to see where it pans out. I kept the profile shorter than for a typical Kenyan because it seemed to be less of a chrome dissolving acid bomb than other Kenyans. I only had enough left to try it for two days off roast and was thrilled with the structure and acidity melding with an absolutely incredible dark maple syrup sweetness. I remember reading once somewhere, I think it might have been Cook's Illustrated that talked about different types of maple syrup and that most professional taste testing panels preferred the developed flavors of Grade B maple syrup over the lighter and more expensive grade A. This same flavor was what came to mind on the Kenyan; it was so sweet that I wanted to pour it over buttermilk pancakes.

MSH wrote:I was able to get my brewing entry out the door to Henry yesterday. I wasn't sure if it was going to happen since my son decided to arrive to the world a bit earlier than expected...



Congrats Papa!



I've got little to say on the espresso submission till tomorrow when I pull shots from the sample I sent. Talking about the prep for the roast and the profile however, I noted like Ed, the Guatemala had more defects, mainly insect boring,than the Brazilian where I didn't note any. The Brazilian was impressive, the beans looked quite good, but all beans got sorted manually for size, broken beans, damaged, misshaped beans and peaberries got sorted out. I even went so far as to separate beans that had different seam gaps, choosing only tight closed, similar sized, non-peaberry beans.

I didn't opt for post roast blending, instead chose to roast them together, however, took a chance on staggering the charge times, which proved a bit difficult managing the available heat energy in the Quest early on. I think an approach like this only works because both these beans need, almost require a lower MET, longer i.e. gentler roast to avoid off notes (the Guatemalan more so), so the disruption in the heat reserve was normalized during the longer drying phase that the Guate required, in other words, I was able to take the Brazilian thru a similar drying phase as the Guatemalan, on the same roast. I charged the Brazilian 45-50 seconds after the Guatemalan, as well as a few other things.

This might not add up to much, ultimately, but the roast smelled amazing and I'll be eager to pull some shots tomorrow and see if it was any good.

 
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