ZF64

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DamianWarS
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#1: Post by DamianWarS »

not the DF64 but the ZF64. it looks like a Eureka Mignon but from pages like these the ZF64 feels like the brother to the DF64 and I assume it's the same factory, same motor, same burr size (64mm) and stock burr set so the performance should be similar. the ZF64 has electronic dosing and they have a ZF64W grind by weight version. does anyone have the ZF64 or ZF64W? what are you're thought on it?

RobAnybody

#2: Post by RobAnybody »

it's the same company that produces the G-IOTA / DF64 espresso grinder
based on the reviews of that grinder my guess the ZF64 should work just fine.
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Rob
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galfert

#3: Post by galfert »

Yes, same company. Feilai Electric Appliance Co.

There is also this website:
http://www.flcoffee.cn

They say that imitation is the greatest form of flattery, but.... :?.... Dunno... I guess it works for some sometimes.

LObin

#4: Post by LObin »

Imitation...?

Are you saying the ZF64 is a Eureka Mignon copy?

There are some similarities indeed but it does not look like a copy to me. We've seen Chinese of the HG-1, Versalab, Ceado Hero, etc. Not the case here. This company is legit.
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DamianWarS (original poster)
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#5: Post by DamianWarS (original poster) » replying to LObin »

it's not a Eureka (or part of the Simonelli group) nor is it a fake Eureka but it looks similar with the squarish hopper. But its similarities was just a reference point. I know it's the same company that makes the DF64 but with all the hype the DF64 is getting the ZF64 may come to the spotlight too.
it seems like it could handle finer adjustments than the DF64 plus a lot of other fancy features like temp, humidity, electronic dosing, grind by weight. I don't see a lot on this grinder but it seems like a decent unit, a bit more money but still good value. the 64mm burr IMO is an excellent competitive market with lot's of options to upgrade or cross-grade into which makes these units more attractive. I'm certain the DF64 and ZF64 have the same internals it's just it seems like the ZF64 is more feature-rich with finer adjustments. I also wonder if that the ZF64's hopper and DF64 bellows are interchangeable.

galfert

#6: Post by galfert »

Yes I'm saying that the Z64 is an imitation of the Mignon Specialita and the the DF64 is an imitation of the Lagom P64. I didn't use the word copy. To me, copy and imitation are different. A copy tries to pull itself off as the original to the unexpected. An imitation is mostly a design decision instead of having self-innovation. An imitation may borrow strongly from another product but it isn't trying trying to do everything exactly the same nor is it trying to deceive.

I'm not dissing on Feilai. I'm just stating the obvious. It is what it is. The products may be great or better than the models they chose to imitate or not. Whether it is same, better or worse is not the point. The point is that the visual design choice is an obvious indisputable imitation.

Cultures are different around the world. In the US there is a strong emphasis and importance on branding and trademark protection. In Asia they don't value branding as much, and if you can make a better or cheaper widget then that has honor, even if it borrows from a previous widget of a different company. There are countless examples of this lack of branding and imitation in all industries.

Please don't misunderstand my perspective. I'm in the market for a new grinder and I'm very much considering the DF64, mostly because it seems they got it right and the price is right for a single dose grinder. I also like how receptive the company has been to quickly address the feedback from initial users (declumper modified, new grind scale font change, anti-popcorn modification).

Nunas
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#7: Post by Nunas »

I have a ZF64W and have been holding back on posting anything about it until I have some experience. It's certainly not a "copy grinder". One look inside will tell you that. Including the hopper, it's rather huge; indeed, I cut the hopper down to fit under a shelf. It has a gear-driven coarse/fine adjustment that is stiff enough to stay put when grinding, so in that sense, it's a continuously variable grind. On the other hand, since it does not use a worm screw, it's a bit twitchy to dial in. But it also has a series of stops, controlled by a pushbutton. So, one can turn the grind adjustment after depressing the knob and twist the coarse/fine knob until it snaps into the next stop hole. It produces reasonably clump-free grinds, although not quite as good as my Settee. The manufacturer sells a bellows hopper as an option. It holds enough for about a half-dozen shots. Equipped with the bellows hopper, it is about the same height as the Settee. The ZF64 is way quieter than the Settee, I measured from 7 to 10 db difference, using a phone app (too lazy to find my sound meter :oops: ) Also, the pitch of the noise is quite different from that of the Settee, making it less harsh on the ears. I'd be happy to answer any questions. BTW, I'm not the first on H_B with this grinder; there's at least one other.

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galfert

#8: Post by galfert »

If you search YouTube for ZF64 grinder you can find several videos. Most are just showing its use. I haven't found one that is an actual review yet though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lM-ndugRag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybw3eI2kHpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQBFRceUfSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUP2ANwCYU

This grinder is not new. One of the videos is almost 2 years old.

DamianWarS (original poster)
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#9: Post by DamianWarS (original poster) »

galfert wrote:Yes I'm saying that the Z64 is an imitation of the Mignon Specialita and the the DF64 is an imitation of the Lagom P64. I didn't use the word copy. To me, copy and imitation are different. A copy tries to pull itself off as the original to the unexpected. An imitation is mostly a design decision instead of having self-innovation. An imitation may borrow strongly from another product but it isn't trying trying to do everything exactly the same nor is it trying to deceive.

I'm not dissing on Feilai. I'm just stating the obvious. It is what it is. The products may be great or better than the models they chose to imitate or not. Whether it is same, better or worse is not the point. The point is that the visual design choice is an obvious indisputable imitation.

Cultures are different around the world. In the US there is a strong emphasis and importance on branding and trademark protection. In Asia they don't value branding as much, and if you can make a better or cheaper widget then that has honor, even if it borrows from a previous widget of a different company. There are countless examples of this lack of branding and imitation in all industries.

Please don't misunderstand my perspective. I'm in the market for a new grinder and I'm very much considering the DF64, mostly because it seems they got it right and the price is right for a single dose grinder. I also like how receptive the company has been to quickly address the feedback from initial users (declumper modified, new grind scale font change, anti-popcorn modification).
yes I agree, I'm sure the design team (whatever that looked like) got their ideas off of the existing market like the Lagom P64 and Specialita (probably more the Specialita XL). I'm sure there's intentionality in the design choice as an overly ambitious design or one that's unique is just going to look odd and unfamiliar. Typical products like these don't get a lot of spotlights, the DF64 is an exception and perhaps one they didn't expect. People are interested in something that looks familiar especially if it's on a bar top to communicate confidence for the barista and quality for the customer and I suspect the Feilai grinder series was looking to blend the existing designs more than stand out. This might be one reason however why JH didn't like the grinder all that much because of its "borrowed" look and I know he's not a fan of people ripping off other designs.

DamianWarS (original poster)
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#10: Post by DamianWarS (original poster) »

Nunas wrote:I have a ZF64W and have been holding back on posting anything about it until I have some experience. It's certainly not a "copy grinder". One look inside will tell you that. Including the hopper, it's rather huge; indeed, I cut the hopper down to fit under a shelf. It has a gear-driven coarse/fine adjustment that is stiff enough to stay put when grinding, so in that sense, it's a continuously variable grind. On the other hand, since it does not use a worm screw, it's a bit twitchy to dial in. But it also has a series of stops, controlled by a pushbutton. So, one can turn the grind adjustment after depressing the knob and twist the coarse/fine knob until it snaps into the next stop hole. It produces reasonably clump-free grinds, although not quite as good as my Settee. The manufacturer sells a bellows hopper as an option. It holds enough for about a half-dozen shots. Equipped with the bellows hopper, it is about the same height as the Settee. The ZF64 is way quieter than the Settee, I measured from 7 to 10 db difference, using a phone app (too lazy to find my sound meter :oops: ) Also, the pitch of the noise is quite different from that of the Settee, making it less harsh on the ears. I'd be happy to answer any questions. BTW, I'm not the first on H_B with this grinder; there's at least one other.
the Sette is a loud grinder with its straight pass through so it's good it's quieter than the Sette but the Sette is on the louder end of the scale. I suspect it is as loud as the DF64 or perhaps even quieter with the hopper in place. When you say a "bellows hopper" do you mean one that's about the same size as the bellows on the DF64? or is it a completely different design? You wouldn't happen to have used or own the DF64 too? I'm interested in their comparison. BTW where did you get it and how much did you pay for it?