Zerno grinder - Page 18

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
LindoPhotography
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#171: Post by LindoPhotography »

Motor noise isn't THAT bad, but it's not quite as nice as a Lagom P64 (or even the DF64v/Timemore 078) Motor which are Brushless DC, instead of brushed.


malling
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#172: Post by malling »

On the other hand it look like something actually made for home, so small and cute.

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retireddude
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#173: Post by retireddude »

LindoPhotography wrote:Motor noise isn't THAT bad, but it's not quite as nice as a Lagom P64 (or even the DF64v/Timemore 078) Motor which are Brushless DC, instead of brushed."
Interesting to see you have a P64 and Z1. I'm thinking about getting one or the other.

How's the retention on the Z1 compared with the P64? I've seen some Zerno users complain about retention where the chute connects with the grinder body. Any other thoughts to share about the pros/cons between those premium 64mm grinders?

buckersss
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#174: Post by buckersss »

jfjj wrote:What burrs do you have? I have the LS in my 804 and I still use my P64 w/ Mizen/MP all the time.
Really? You find those 64mm out preform the LS? I've read so many comments about the lab sweet being some of the best burrs out there. What style beans/shots are you pulling?

jfjj
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#175: Post by jfjj replying to buckersss »

The LS cast are unreal for Espresso. I use the 804 for cupping and the occasional batch grind. Once and a while i'll do an espresso as well. The workflow isn't the greatest though.
- Jean

Jonk
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#176: Post by Jonk »

malling wrote:On the other hand it look like something actually made for home, so small and cute.
Agreed. I was a bit surprised the first time I saw a P64 in person. It looks so sleek in pictures, but it's kind of chunky to be honest :o

Ben: have you been able to compare the same burrs in a P64 and the Zerno? Any difference due to the pre-breaker in your impression?

cibby
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#177: Post by cibby »

malling wrote:On the other hand it look like something actually made for home, so small and cute.
One thing that surprised me in person is how deep it is vs other grinders. I have a couple kafateks. I really like the zernos lower profile but it takes up more depth on your countertop.

LindoPhotography
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#178: Post by LindoPhotography »

Yep, I'm probably one of those who was mentioning the retention, but it's mostly in the chute. I thought it was because internally it's not anodized and smooth (same with the cup) but also the ionizer gets covered in coffee the first time you use it, so that is rendered ineffective immediately. Vel from Zerno I believe made an insert for the chute you can 3D Print, I haven't tried it yet but the person who sent it to me is SUPER happy with it so far (he had it printed with real plastic not typical 3D print though, so maybe that's smoother finished). The insert makes the internal part of the chute narrower so less coffee can get stuck and prevents the ionizer from being blocked. I posted it in my Zerno Facebook group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/zernogr ... tid=oMANbw
I will release some (more) videos of my testing and comparing with the Zerno and P64 soon-ish.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... HzSkmb2BTT

As it came, the retention is worse on the Zerno Z1 vs the P64, but it all or like 99.9% of it gets knocked out with a flick/knock of the magnetic chute. The problem I have with that is it often makes a mess And it's an extra step in the workflow, where P64, has an nicer, neater, no nonsense workflow. I'm betting the next batch of Zerno Z1's will have an updated chute without needing a 3d Print add-on though. The good thing is, it's a very modular grinder, so if you need to change or update a part, it seems like something that would be easy to do. I'd love an updated chute, rather than messing with 3D printing junk.


My Friend just got a Gevi Grindmaster which seems like a budget version of the Zerno, probably not as good but seems promising besides the cheap built in scale and probably annoying dosing cup :D We might do some comparisons between those soon hopefully.

Lagom P64 also has Portafilter forks which is missing from the Zerno and Gevi grinder, you'll need a stand to go with it (still being developed?) sold separately if you don't want to use a dosing cup. I tried using an portafilter stand I have and it didn't work so well due to the height (I made a video).
retireddude wrote:Interesting to see you have a P64 and Z1. I'm thinking about getting one or the other.
How's the retention on the Z1 compared with the P64? I've seen some Zerno users complain about retention where the chute connects with the grinder body. Any other thoughts to share about the pros/cons between those premium 64mm grinders?

LindoPhotography
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#179: Post by LindoPhotography »

I have the SSP MP in the P64 and ordered the Zerno with the SSP MP BLIND burrs, currently I have the Option-O Mizen burrs in the Zerno and I was going to compare with the old P64 stock burrs which I really liked previously (they look like Gorilla Gear burrs, or similar to the new DF64V/Gen2 burrs). But been liking the SSP MP too much lately so not changing them yet!

I did initially compare both grinders with the same burrs, and tried to match RPM and grind size. For cupping and pour over/aeropress I had to try really hard to find any differences, they seemed identical in taste pretty much. Slight differences where I preferred one over the other were likely due grind size differences or my brewing errors.

I seasoned the SSP MP burrs in the Zerno (p64 burrs had been used for a while so likely seasoned) and did more testing and didn't notice any change! So I don't think you NEED to season those burrs, but I wasn't doing too much espresso with them at that point yet! So maybe it could have improved for espresso, I can't say that for sure.

I think I might have noticed a bit of a trend with espresso the Zerno has little more smoothness with the SSP MP burrs, maybe a little less punchiness those burrs can have sometimes, I suspect the prebreaker is actually adding some fines but I don't notice it being at the expense of losing flavour clarity or anything. I think the differences were usually pretty subtle, sometimes P64 shot turned out better, sometimes the Zerno one did.
With those SSP MP burrs though I do notice more flavour clarity at lower RPM and more body /blended notes (likely more fines) at higher RPM so the P64 has the advantage of being more versatile with the same burrs having variable RPM control!

I hated the 64mm SSP Cast burrs. I had them in a P64, and DF64, two different sets. My least favourite burrs. the Option-O mizen is much nicer (I have the earlier smoothed moonshine version, new version will have a rougher texture and more body I believe, which should be good too). I'm not a fan of burrs if you have to put through 10kg of coffee before they work as intended. Although with Mizen burrs I think for pour over / AeroPress (coarser brewing) I was getting some astringency that went away after some seasoning. For espresso though Mizen burrs seemed good right out of the box!

I'm thinking I should put the SSP MP Blind burrs back in the Zerno and do more testing rather than swap the P64 stock burrs back in the P64 to compare with Mizen. I also have the same SSP MP burrs in an Gen1 ODE now too lol I noticed in the Ode it seemed to showcase a little more roasty notes in light coffees where you're reminded it's a coffee and not tea (I got it used, and haven't confirmed they're SSP MP in there, but it tastes like it, just a little different!) Definitely a bigger difference between the ODE and P64 or Zerno than between the Zerno Z1 and P64! But I do like the ODE for pour overs too, amazing little grinder for the money! I was more impressed by my cheap beat up old ODE initially because I had such low expectations. With the expensive Zerno I had such high expectations initially especially with people hyping it up saying it somehow makes the same 64mm burrs better than on other grinders... but I don't think that's the case, if it is, it's too subtle to really matter. I'm curious if anyone else has compared and what their findings are!


Ben
Jonk wrote:Agreed. I was a bit surprised the first time I saw a P64 in person. It looks so sleek in pictures, but it's kind of chunky to be honest :o

Ben: have you been able to compare the same burrs in a P64 and the Zerno? Any difference due to the pre-breaker in your impression?
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I_Am_King_Midas
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#180: Post by I_Am_King_Midas »

Now that you have spent more time with these grinders in the above picture do you have a favorite? I am wondering if the 64mm burrs are able to compete with the 83 mm burrs