What you would want in a grinder? - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
User avatar
mohninme
Posts: 275
Joined: 6 years ago

#11: Post by mohninme »

Nunas wrote:I've looked at these often. Since Baratza and Etzinger apparently cooperated on the development, I presume that Baratza have some sort of exclusive agreement for North America. Yet, the Sette is available in Europe. But, this makes me wonder how much difference there is. Europeans, is the EtzMax-light a better (quieter, more reliable) grinder than the Sette? Or, on this side of the pond, have any of our members imported Etzinger grinders? Views please!
I made an inquiry with Etzinger and their grinders can be purchased and shipped to North America. I didn't check for all models, but the EtzMax-light models are available in 110V for North America. The weight-based grinder is $2550 USD and the shipping is another $250-300 USD plus customs/tax/VAT etc. That equates pretty close to $3700 CAN after all the dust settles. :shock:
Michael

Nunas
Supporter ♡
Posts: 3659
Joined: 9 years ago

#12: Post by Nunas replying to mohninme »

Good grief! That's a lot of $$$ for a souped-up Sette! If one wants gravimetric dosing directly into the portafilter, there isn't much out there. The Sette is the hands-down price leader. There's the Fiorenzato F64 XGi, which I think isn't available in Canada yet, but will cost plenty, I'm sure, and the EtzMax Lite (thanks, Michael), which is hellishly expensive IMO. There's another thread here on H-B on the ZF64W /grinders/z ... 71176.html, which is possibly the only other contender in the gravimetric to PF class. I think it's a bit ugly and kind of huge compared to the Sette. Also, if you want fine control over the grind, it's not there due to its stepped grind setting. Still, at least by the few reports we have, it hits it out of the park in terms of build quality, grind and price. I think if my Sette dies again, I'd consider this as its replacement.

Ad-85
Posts: 548
Joined: 4 years ago

#13: Post by Ad-85 »

- Large flat
- dose by weight / single dose
- easy to clean without worrying about anything
- alignment won't change after cleaning
- no need for alignment
- step less / can change grind settings easily
- can go back and forth between grind settings
- solid build quality
- looks good on the counter
- variable speed
- brushless dc motor
- no SSP burrs I hate them ( cast steel is ok but shuriken is amazing )
- no mess when grinding

I think it's simple and can be done :d
LMWDB #691
LeverHeads group on Telegram

User avatar
mohninme
Posts: 275
Joined: 6 years ago

#14: Post by mohninme »

mohninme wrote:I made an inquiry with Etzinger and their grinders can be purchased and shipped to North America. I didn't check for all models, but the EtzMax-light models are available in 110V for North America. The weight-based grinder is $2550 USD and the shipping is another $250-300 USD plus customs/tax/VAT etc. That equates pretty close to $3700 CAN after all the dust settles. :shock:
Nunas wrote:Good grief! That's a lot of $$$ for a souped-up Sette! If one wants gravimetric dosing directly into the portafilter, there isn't much out there. The Sette is the hands-down price leader. There's the Fiorenzato F64 XGi, which I think isn't available in Canada yet, but will cost plenty, I'm sure, and the EtzMax Lite (thanks, Michael), which is hellishly expensive IMO. There's another thread here on H-B on the ZF64W /grinders/z ... 71176.html, which is possibly the only other contender in the gravimetric to PF class. I think it's a bit ugly and kind of huge compared to the Sette. Also, if you want fine control over the grind, it's not there due to its stepped grind setting. Still, at least by the few reports we have, it hits it out of the park in terms of build quality, grind and price. I think if my Sette dies again, I'd consider this as its replacement.
Etzinger followed up with a second email and some updated pricing. Maybe they read our posts.. :wink:

Pricing correction is $1700 EU ($2050 USD at todays exchange) and shipping is included for products over $1200 USD. So that equates to $2605 CAN with GST and maybe some custom/duty fees.?. No mistake, its an expensive grinder, but this seems more in line with other commercial grade offerings. I am gonna leave this one on my Christmas list. :lol:
Michael

cskorton
Posts: 209
Joined: 6 years ago

#15: Post by cskorton »

I think the sette and etzmax nailed the design for conicals. I can't stand the tiny bit of retention and mess I get from my DF64 Iota. The chute is too long, narrow, and does not allow gravity to help it. My Kinu m68 (along with other hand grinders, sette and etzmax) have a straight through hopper design so there is literally no where for grinds to hide. This should be the new design standard IMO. For flats, I have no idea. Also, for no retention, conicals are 100% the way to go. The taste difference is hardly, if not impossible for me to taste, though feel free to disagree. I'd imagine the Lagom conical, HG-1/2, and Weber's new grinder to be revealed today will work well in this regard too.

User avatar
Bluecold
Posts: 1774
Joined: 16 years ago

#16: Post by Bluecold »

This is a difficult question to answer without answering an equivalent of 'faster horses' as per the famous Ford quote.
My attempt:
-grind result such that the not-fines are of uniform size
-total workflow length not longer than extraction time, to allow for back-to-back shot pulling
-grinds end up only in basket
-grind result that is of uniform distribution (ie, properly mixed)
-Fifo grind path, with a total retention that is half of the least perceivable different bean (ie, how much stale stinky robusta can you add before it gets noticable in a 14gm good light roast Ethiopian, that is double the maximum retention).
-grinder mass, size, and energy use not more than current industry standard for countertop home appliances (or, I'm not too bothered about those)
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

jessica_leva_jp
Posts: 13
Joined: 3 years ago

#17: Post by jessica_leva_jp »

I agree with many here that the sette/handgrinder/versalab straight grind path with gravity catch cup is really ideal. No tilted burr, wipers, or chutes to redirect the flow of grounds. Just let the grounds fall out the burrs with gravity into a cup.
On top of that I would like to see a sette270 like design using some mazzer 186c (71mm robur) burrs or the macap/compak 68mm conicals but built solid with excellent tolerances and alignment but not at Kafatek/Versalab boutique pricing.
Of what is on the market now, the Helor106, Versalab M4, Option-O HSM, and the soon to be release Kopi DEVA (64mm flat) are the ones that have my attention as getting closest to my ideal.

mtbizzle
Posts: 246
Joined: 4 years ago

#18: Post by mtbizzle »

What burrs I want would probably be something that changed over time. That said, I think I'd want, large flat burrs, must be well aligned, seasoned would be nice. Include a funnel that attaches perhaps magnetically to a 58mm portafilter & an included grinds cup, and include arms/a slot to insert the dosing cup/portafilter for grinding. Single dosing, preferably less than 0?3g retention. Easy dosing. Stepless, wide grind range. Dial has many markings that are easy to read, grind settings are in microns based on factory alignment (which again needs to be good). Preferably fits under a cabinet.
"All people by nature desire to know" -Aristotle

User avatar
mohninme
Posts: 275
Joined: 6 years ago

#19: Post by mohninme »

jessica_leva_jp wrote:I agree with many here that the sette/handgrinder/versalab straight grind path with gravity catch cup is really ideal. No tilted burr, wipers, or chutes to redirect the flow of grounds. Just let the grounds fall out the burrs with gravity into a cup.
On top of that I would like to see a sette270 like design using some mazzer 186c (71mm robur) burrs or the macap/compak 68mm conicals.
Reading about the conical burr design of the Etzinger grinders, they are intentionally smaller at 38mm because the smaller grinding chamber will retain less grinds. 0.3g is the claim. I suspect the grind chamber and burr carrier is more refined than the settle with less catch area for retention. That said I find the retention of my sette to be very little so long as I clean it regularly.

Edit: Correction to the above - Burr size is 32mm and retention is 0.8g
Michael

raidensix
Posts: 32
Joined: 5 years ago

#20: Post by raidensix »

mohninme wrote:Etzinger followed up with a second email and some updated pricing. Maybe they read our posts.. :wink:

Pricing correction is $1700 EU ($2050 USD at todays exchange) and shipping is included for products over $1200 USD. So that equates to $2605 CAN with GST and maybe some custom/duty fees.?. No mistake, its an expensive grinder, but this seems more in line with other commercial grade offerings. I am gonna leave this one on my Christmas list. :lol:
That would still be lower than the Mahloknig E65S GBW. I've been waiting on the EtzMax to show up in the US for some time. I asked on their Facebook page once and they replied that they had plans to enter the US market but got delayed by the Covid pandemic. I wonder how warranty work if you buy from Europe and also their firmware updater is not in the US app store.