What model Mazzer Major do I have?

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Laral

#1: Post by Laral »

Hello. This is my first post here but I have been lurking for awhile. This forum is really great. I recently bought a commercial espresso machine and I will need help in getting started so this is the place to be. I recently bought a Mazzer Major grinder for the machine and I'm not sure what model I have. The 'brass tag' says it's a 'Major Aut.' and the operator 'receipt' says it is model MJA09. The manual says 'Major Royal' on the cover. The power rating data gives 120V, 7.5A, 60Hz. That's 900W. According to the meager data I got directly from the Mazzer site, there is no Major Royal model. Forget about the model NUMBER - there is no reference to one. There is only the Major OR the Royal. OK. The Major has a power rating of 650W which would be around 5.5A at 120V. The Royal, however, has a rating of 900W. Hmmmm. The hopper looks exactly like the Major one and NOT the Royal one. And the total height measures 25" like the Major and not 28 1/3" like the Royal. Another thing, the grounds tray looks like the Major one and not like the Royal one. And the switch is the automatic type with the 0|1|START positions which is the only option for the Royal and is one of three options for the Major. So it looks like I have a 900W Royal automatic model. Does anyone know anything about the model numbers and if a 900W Major is an option not shown on the website? Or is the current rating just the peak value needed for wiring purposes. If so then the RMS current would be around 5.5A and the power rating would be 650W (RMS). Maybe someone has a Major and could check the rating on the plate. Any help would be appreciated.

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shadowfax

#2: Post by shadowfax »

I'd suggest a Kill-A-Watt to you as a very cool, cheap toy to monitor the power usage on anything in your house that you're curious about, guesstimating the real-world electricity usage of your appliances, etc. It would be interesting to plug YOUR grinder into a Kill-A-Watt and see how much it really draws. That will be the most fool-proof way to figure out what's what.

Beyond that, I believe the Royal is a Robur with Major burrs, i.e. it's in the huge housing with the 900W motor that the Robur has, though I think it may spin faster than the Robur's (but still much slower than the Major's ~1600 rpm). So, the Robur is about 60lbs. I bet the Royal is in that range; The Major is only about 45 pounds, as far as I know. So, you could also get out a bathroom scale and see where your grinder falls on that.

Finally, pictures of your toys are always amusing and often a lot more helpful in getting questions answered.
Nicholas Lundgaard

Laral (original poster)

#3: Post by Laral (original poster) »

Yes eventually I plan to get a Kill A Watt meter and to post some photos but now I'm hoping someone, preferably a dealer, who knows these models well, can enlighten me based on my description. Is this possibly a Major with the same or similar motor as the Royal? As for pictures it looks exactly like a Major (http://www.mazzer.com/scheda.asp?idprod=5#).

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shadowfax

#4: Post by shadowfax »

If you can tell the difference between this image and this one, and you're sure it's the latter (the Major), then I'd guess that your grinder is mislabeled or something. If you have any doubt about which one it matches, then I'd recommend the weight comparison (Major = 20kg, Royal = 27kg) or the power consumption check.

FWIW, the manual that comes with my Robur is for the Kony and Robur. My Super Jolly's manual, I believe, also has another grinder listed. That is, your user manual is generic and covers the two grinders (Major/Royal) because they are quite similar. The manual is definitely no indication of what you've got, and it's pretty likely that you've got a plain old Major. Still, the 7.5A rating is interesting. This thing is brand new, correct?
Nicholas Lundgaard

Laral (original poster)

#5: Post by Laral (original poster) »

If you can tell the difference between this image and this one, and you're sure it's the latter (the Major), then I'd guess that your grinder is mislabeled or something. If you have any doubt about which one it matches, then I'd recommend the weight comparison (Major = 20kg, Royal = 27kg) or the power consumption check.
As I said it looks exactly like the Major. It weighs in at 44 lbs too. According to NEMA standards [PDF], "Rated load current in amps is at nameplate horsepower (HP) with nameplate voltage and frequency." So if the nameplate is correct that's 900W under load not 650W. The model lineup at the Mazzer site shows the Major is proportionally smaller than the Royal. I assume most of that extra size for the Royal is to accommodate the larger motor. Both models have 83mm burrs. So I don't know. It seems almost inconceivable that a wrong nameplate would be applied, especially considering it has the unique identifying serial number. I will try to contact Mazzer directly and see what's going on here.
FWIW, the manual that comes with my Robur is for the Kony and Robur. My Super Jolly's manual, I believe, also has another grinder listed. That is, your user manual is generic and covers the two grinders (Major/Royal) because they are quite similar. The manual is definitely no indication of what you've got, and it's pretty likely that you've got a plain old Major. Still, the 7.5A rating is interesting. This thing is brand new, correct?
Well, looking at the photos at Mazzer, it seems that the Major is very similar to the Kony, and the Robur is very similar to the Royal. So I'd expect the same manual for the Major|Kony or for the Robur|Royal. Certainly not for the Major|Royal or the Robur|Kony. The cover page of the manual does have a stylized "|" between the names however. As for my NIB "plain old Major", I'll gladly settle for it any 'old' time. ;) Frankly it's already more overkill than anyone needs at home and I suspect most people would give their eye teeth to own one. :mrgreen:

jcj

#6: Post by jcj »

Power quoted in watts is usually output power from the motor. Input power is generally quoted in either VA (volts multiplied by amps), or volts and amps separately, and is considerably higher for motors due to things such as power factor, heating of the motor windings, etc.

In short, the 650w figure refers to the power you get out of the motor, the volts and amps figures refer to the amount of power going in. The Royal would draw more than 7.5A at 120v so your grinder is almost certainly the Major Automatic.

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sweaner
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#7: Post by sweaner »

Could the manual be the same one for both a Major and a Royal? Hence the confusion.
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Laral (original poster)

#8: Post by Laral (original poster) »

jcj wrote:Power quoted in watts is usually output power from the motor. Input power is generally quoted in either VA (volts multiplied by amps), or volts and amps separately, and is considerably higher for motors due to things such as power factor, heating of the motor windings, etc.

In short, the 650w figure refers to the power you get out of the motor, the volts and amps figures refer to the amount of power going in. The Royal would draw more than 7.5A at 120v so your grinder is almost certainly the Major Automatic.
I find it hard to believe the manufacturer of an appliance would quote the output power. How would they measure it? What significance would it have for anyone but possibly an engineer or a physicist? The end user is only interested in the power *consumption*. The power figure is only given in Mazzer's ad copy. The nameplate only gives the current and voltage ratings. The real power consumption would be the nameplate V*I multiplied by the power factor. For V*I=900VA a power factor of .7 would give a power consumption of 650W. So you are correct but for the wrong reason. The output power would be still less due primarily to load friction. The power factor already includes resistive heating of the windings.

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shadowfax

#9: Post by shadowfax »

sweaner wrote:Could the manual be the same one for both a Major and a Royal? Hence the confusion.
Yes, I believe that's one of the places the OP's confusion stems from, in addition to the power rating issue that John explained. I have a Super Jolly; It's rated on the sticker for 5A. In theory, it's got a 600W motor. but... its motor is rated as only 350W on the Mazzer site (as a matter of interest, my SJ motor draws 4.58A @ 119.6 V under no bean load). I imagine when comparing motors that the output is of prime importance. No motor is 100% efficient, and not all motors are exactly as efficient as others. Mazzer lists motor output in the interest of comparing the power of their grinders' power. On the side of the machine, they have to list its power draw--I am sure that's part of being ETL/UL certified.

Finally, The Robur is listed together with the Kony, because they are Mazzer's 2 conicals:



and the Super Jolly and Mini are paired on their manuals:



You've indicated the Royal and Major have a common manual as well, so now we've covered most of Mazzer's line, and solved your mystery. You have a Major.
Nicholas Lundgaard

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Psyd
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#10: Post by Psyd »

Laral wrote: The 'brass tag' says it's a 'Major Aut.' and the operator 'receipt' says it is model MJA09. The manual says 'Major Royal' on the cover. The power rating data gives 120V, 7.5A, 60Hz. That's 900W. Maybe someone has a Major and could check the rating on the plate. Any help would be appreciated.

Mine both have 'Major Aut' on their tags, and both are listed at 7.5A at 110V at 60Hz, single phase. You have a Royal Manual. I could e-mail you a .pdf of the Major Manual, and you could compare them.
Both of mine, however, are a bit older and do not have the locking collar on the hoppers.

And appliances are labeled with their draw. It is the reason that they are required to be labeled. No one at CU, UL, or NSAE care about your advertising, they're safety oriented, and the output power of the motor matters not one whit to them. Absolutely, the safety plate is displaying the amount of power that the appliance will draw.
If you put it on a meter of any kind, know that start-up draw will be many multiples of the amperage shown on the plate, but will (usually before your meter will be able to display it) rapidly go back to something below what is shown on the plate.
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