baldheadracing wrote:In my experience, the larger the burr, the more this behaviour is typical. I expect it on 68mm+ conicals - but I've never ground at less than about 100rpm and that may make a difference.

Roast development (for lack of a better term) also seems to be a factor. With something like Saka bar blends I can use the same setting for the entire kilo, even with the Lido2 and Fixie (47mm nominal Italmill and Etzinger burrs, respectively).

so you think it has to do with the larger burr rather than the conical vs flat? (or a combination?)

I typically grind at lower than 100rpm with med to light roasts.

I don't know why. I know a 38mm Italmill conical burr in a hand grinder has a narrower sweet spot than a Robur, but is that due to size (diameter) or size (height) or size (grind paths) or differences in burr design or different rpms and/or different angular velocities or alignment or ???

This is all a bit confounded as all large conical burrs that I know of were intended for use in high-volume cafes serving darker espresso roasts. AFAIK, nobody has taken the small conical burr designs that are less bimodal at hand grinder rpms and scaled them up.

Got my Key recently and am quite satisfied so far. Grounds are fluffy and even without seasoning things seem pretty consistent (tried three different coffees, and have been able to dial each one in without a problem). I have been targeting 1.5ml/sec flow rate and haven't had any channeling so far.

I am still getting used to the workflow and trying to decide whether or not I like the magic tumbler. The magic tumbler adds another step or two compared to a grinding straight into the portafilter. My workflow is: RDT in my old catch up, pour the beans into a dosing tray and into the grinder, spritz bottom filter and place into portafilter while Key grinds, transfer grinds from magic tumbler to portafilter, put on dosing funnel, light WDT on top to even out mound from tumbler. If you decided that the magic tumbler was sufficient for declumping and skipped WDT then I suppose the workflow would take approximately the same amount of time as direct to portafilter + WDT. I've seen others use the other funnel to grind directly into a portafilter and unfortunately I didn't order the funnel so can't try that out workflow.

Biggest annoyance for me was trying to figure where the paper clip was after grinding so I put a piece of electrical tape on the shaft to mark the paper clip position. Now it's easy to strategically turn off the grinder using the tape as a reference point for where the stirrer is and that's really sped things up. I turn the grinder off right as the tape is at 6 o'clock and by the time I turn off the grinder the shaft has rotated another 1/4 turn and the tape is 9 o'clock so you don't see the tape at all when the grinder is off.

Even though the magic tumbler catches all overspray, you can still get coffee particles on the counter if you flick the paper clip on accident when you remove the tumbler (mitigated now that I can easily predict the paper clip location) and from residual coffee stuck to the tumbler after you take out the mushroom.

I do have a late-August P100 preorder so now I need to figure out whether or not to cancel that or try to sell the Key or P100 used...

I like that tape idea.

beancrusher wrote:
Biggest annoyance for me was trying to figure where the paper clip was after grinding so I put a piece of electrical tape on the shaft to mark the paper clip position. Now it's easy to strategically turn off the grinder using the tape as a reference point for where the stirrer is and that's really sped things up. I turn the grinder off right as the tape is at 6 o'clock and by the time I turn off the grinder the shaft has rotated another 1/4 turn and the tape is 9 o'clock so you don't see the tape at all when the grinder is off.

Even though the magic tumbler catches all overspray, you can still get coffee particles on the counter if you flick the paper clip on accident when you remove the tumbler (mitigated now that I can easily predict the paper clip location) and from residual coffee stuck to the tumbler after you take out the mushroom.

omg, you are a genius! the tape idea is brilliant, thanks for sharing!

My workflow is:
- grind coffee directly from my single dose vial or measured and funnelled into the cup it came with
- no RDT, pour right into the grinder
- when finished grinding, put magic tumbler on portafilter, empty out, do a swirl, light tap, then put the magic tumbler back on

caveat: I need to tap lightly otherwise, the coffee on the bottom of the grinder or wiper will fall onto the landing pad/counter and make a little mess, I got a small counter vacuum that fits in my palm but it's annoying to clean all the time

it can be mess free, but you have to pay attention to make it mess free, definitely more fussy

For sure, but it's so much conscious effort to avoid any stray grounds. If a totally clean station is the goal, I think getting the standard funnel and direct dosing into the portafilter is the way to go. I didn't opt for the funnel during the order because I thought one of the major selling points was that the Key could eliminate the WDT step with the tumbler, but since I still WDT to even out the mound after the tumbler anyways I would definitely try the funnel if I had ordered it.

Same technique as Chipman's. Started doing it with my EG-1 and found it works the same with my Key. No complaints.

One thing I've noticed with the Key is that if I'm using frozen beans I don't need to RDT or WDT when grinding at 70 rpm's.

I put my funnel on and dumped from the tumbler straight into that and it was way smoother, especially because I can put the mushroom back in without taking the tumbler off the portafilter. Might need to find a straight edge funnel instead of my current one which flares out so the tumbler can sit nicely on the edge. OE cylinder looks like it sits inside the basket so that's not ideal.

Is anyone brewing for filter coffees managing to get decent / decently high extractions? I'm always short of where I want to land taste wise, which was backed by low TDS/EY% readings. Grinding finer makes for muddy choked brews with similarly low TDS.