Weber Workshops Key Mk. i Grinder - user experience - Page 22

#211: Post by **BruceWayne** » March 8th, 2022, 11:20 pm

I think you'd actually need to do it in a lab with some air pressure differential to blow or suck the grinds away, but I couldn't think of how to set it up.

#212: Post by **BruceWayne** » March 8th, 2022, 11:23 pm

Jessipoo wrote:I thought the numbers were etched, but on the ONYX it doesn't look etched so much as painted, unless you're not referring to the dial ring numbers

Off topic, but the EG-1 v. 1 display has an issue where the LEDs for the last digit burn out over time. I wasn't referring to the Key at all.

#213: Post by **chipman** » March 8th, 2022, 11:48 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Ouch! I remember you complaining about the grinder continually locking up and then looking for a replacement pin. My sympathies. I'm glad there's a local repair shop. I might need to make use of them for my EG-1 v. 1 as the last digit on the display is almost burned out.

I had the same issue with the control box. Unfortunately that is a third party part and has to be repaired by the manufacturer. Last time I checked the cost was $100.00 plus shipping (for me it was $35.00 each way) The cost of a new box is $500.00. This is a common occurrence for the first generation EG1. Most owners don't even bother having it fixed. In fact many keep the box hidden away.

March 9th, 2022, 1:01 am

This is my review and its going to be a bit long. I have been viewing the Key threads religiously and haven't participated since we were arguing about whether the sound it was making in the promo video was weird or not. I will cover my impressions on a lot of the elements that have been discussed on the various threads, but focus more on my experience in a specific sense and where I think the grinder fits in the landscape of grinders available.

I've had my key for about three weeks now making between 5 and 7 shots a day depending on if someone in the house or a guests are joining. I make espresso with a Robot. 90% of the coffee I use is on the medium scale with the remaining 10% being light.

I purchased on IGG and used my savings to go full Weber ecosystem w/ bean cellars, tamping mat, fancy shot mirror, DHL shipping. All in I'm at the 2k mark. A benefit of this is that psychologically, I feel like I bought the grinder at full price and got a bunch of free stuff rather than paying at the early adopter discount. So, with my review, I am speaking from the full price perspective than from an early adopter discounted perspective.

---

Finish and Aesthetics: My Key is Onyx. No blemishes or scratches upon delivery. The build is very satisfying. It is so small but so heavy. I use the Magic Tumbler and it has a hefty weight to it that I enjoy especially when I place it on my basket (I am clumsy and the weight helps prevent accidents for me

. I love its look on the counter. It's subtle. But when someone notices, it can turn into a fun little conversation piece.

Dialing in, RPM, and Weight: Dialing in took me about a week to get used to. I think the stepped adjustment is a different paradigm from stepless. As others have noted, there is a gap between steps in terms of flow rate. It is a small gap, but it is there. For the first few days, I was a little frustrated by recipes being just a hair off and wanting to go right between the steps. However, after the first few days I realized that I could make incredibly micro adjustments by altering the RPMs. Unlike the grind settings, the RPMs are stepless and moving up or down ~10 RPMs can make a small difference in flow rate without meaningfully altering the shot's flavor profile. Since using the grind setting+RPM method, I've been able to achieve very precise and consistent results.

(NB) With light roasts I start at 50 RPM as a base and micro adjust from there, 70 for medium-light, 100 for medium, 120 for medium dark.

Workflow: Like I said, I went full ecosystem and got the bean cellars. I really like them and they make the workflow seamless but I can see how not having a thin, pre-dosed receptacle to pour out of would make the opening/tiny dosing cup challenging to work with. I just go from the cellar to the thimble and RDT into that. If I forget to RDT and go from cellar to grinder, static isn't too bad and it's even smoother. When I switch beans, I wind out the grind settings and give the burrs a little brush. I pop the inner burr out for a brush weekly. Having a pinch of beans in helps immensely if the bolt is too tight. All in all I love the workflow but realize that might be a cellar thing moreso than a grinder thing.

Shots: I've found the texture to vary coffee to coffee. I've found that coffees described to produce more body, the shot takes on what I would describe as an aerated quality that is very intriguing. That sensation is present to a lesser degree with thinner coffees. The RPM adjustment does little things to the texture within each coffee but it's more fun to play around with than something making or breaking a shot. Flavors are very clear in the neighborhood of a P64, but you can definitely still tell its a conical. All in all I really enjoy the espresso it makes and am happy to now call it the espresso I make.

Waxing Poetic, Value, Expectations, The Home Espresso Grinder Landscape, Final Thoughts:

So I think there's a bit of disconnect between this grinder's value proposition and the expectations it generated. The early marketing (which I bought into), sold the grinder as a machine with a small footprint, big burrs, a durable motor, and affordable price. The expectations became "Endgame Grinder". Do I think that the Key is an "Endgame Grinder?" For me, yes. I love my espresso right now and do not anticipate changing my grinder for years. However, I think the "Endgame" moniker is a poor way to frame espresso equipment and ultimately leads to unrealistic expectations for consumers. I've seen a lot of complaints in the realm of "For an endgame grinder it should x,y,z," or "For 2 thousand dollars it should...." I understand that 2k is a sizable amount of money, but it is not enough money to buy perfection and "Endgame" is often positioned as that: perfection.

Overall, I think grinder is a pretty good value. The cost clearly has gone into an amazing looking design, high quality materials, a large premium burr, and a BLDC motor and that's what was promised. For me, its looks are a huge plus that can be hard to quantify. My bar is my counter. While I wouldn't sacrifice core functionality for looks, the looks are still a big advantage. Other grinders may do a better job, I can't try them all, but the package of looks, build quality, burr size, single dosing, and price point seems fairly unique in the espresso grinder landscape, especially among conicals.

So far I am incredibly pleased with my purchase. Big recommend especially for conical lovers.

#215: Post by **Jshot** » March 9th, 2022, 1:37 am

Thanks for the review. Which grinder were you using before the Key?

#216: Post by **Jessipoo** » March 9th, 2022, 1:54 am

herefortheprocess wrote:This is my review and its going to be a bit long.....

Wow. wowwww, I'm standing up and slow clapping to you. What a review. That was fun to read, thanks for sharing!

#217: Post by **BodieZoffa** » March 9th, 2022, 4:35 am

herefortheprocess wrote:Overall, I think grinder is a pretty good value. The cost clearly has gone into an amazing looking design, high quality materials, a large premium burr, and a BLDC motor and that's what was promised. For me, its looks are a huge plus that can be hard to quantify. My bar is my counter. While I wouldn't sacrifice core functionality for looks, the looks are still a big advantage. Other grinders may do a better job, I can't try them all, but the package of looks, build quality, burr size, single dosing, and price point seems fairly unique in the espresso grinder landscape, especially among conicals.

So far I am incredibly pleased with my purchase. Big recommend especially for conical lovers.

Well stated, especially on the 'endgame' topic as it gets quite old reading that. Some constantly mention upgrading, when most enthusiasts barely scrape the surface of what they currently use is capable of and then want to spend, spend, spend... Instead of chasing the mythical dragon of perfection with different burr types/that sort of thing for some time now I've made the effort of sourcing greens I like then dial them in during roasting to give me exactly what I like in the demitasse and have a simple, but very capable setup to make it all happen.

March 9th, 2022, 5:32 am

Still getting used to using it, but so far I really enjoy the grinder, or the results I get out of those big 83mm Mazzer Burrs at least. Seems to be very versatile and works well with light or darker roasts, also works well for aeropress and likely other coarser brew methods which was surprising to me. For a 'conical' burr there's more clarity than you might expect. It's not too far off from a flat burr. But I like how the Conical burrs kinda colourizes everything a Unami richness.

It takes some getting used to with the Tumbler workflow but it works pretty well with the non Magic Tumblers funnel and shorter wiper arm without the paperclip WDT thing, along with the magic tumbler since it is slightly taller there is less overspray at higher RPM.

The paperclip thing on the magic tumbler just gets in the way for me and flings coffee when you inevitably hit it, since you never know where it will end up when done grinding. Bent mine up pretty quickly, didn't bother replacing it, but it's good it came with 2 extras.

Not sure if I'm getting consistent shot times with it yet, dialing in seems tricky sometimes, but could just be me. Even when shots run fast (with the help of flow control) you can still get really good results.

There seems to be a benefit to seasoning the burrs, I Think I noticed a flavor improvement after a little seasoning, another friend says after more seasoning the shot timing stabilizes more.

I see a tiny bit of burr wobble if looking at the burrs and burr gap, I also have a vibration noise which weber says is normal and it is actually heard in theirs in their promo video, but for an expensive high end grinder you might expect it to be more quiet. Grinding is pretty quiet especially at RPM but there is a vibration sound that is more apparent at medium-High RPM when there is no coffee being ground, my Lagom P64 motor is much more silent, grinding on the P64 however is generally louder vs the Key.

I can see how customer support can kinda rub people the wrong way. They need to work on that.
But grind and coffee quality seems really good to me.

I wonder how Option-O's HSM with the same 83mm Mazzer burrs compares.
Or the HG-1 Prime from Craiglyn.

#219: Post by **Srv-02** » March 9th, 2022, 5:43 am

jmotzi wrote:But is it really necessary to achieve the same as the initial (factory) torque? Clearly WW don't think so or they would have provided a method. I have had zero issues with tightening by hand. When I loosen the bolt a few days later for cleaning, it's always about the same torque as I achieved in tightening a few days before. I won't argue against the fact that it would be nice to have a locking method, but I don't see any problem without it. Anyway, just my two cents.

I wouldn't want to apply factory torque on the plastic wiper, just sayin' ...

#220: Post by **BaristaBob** » March 9th, 2022, 9:11 am

BruceWayne wrote:A relevant question is, "What RPM are you grinding at?" The Key is grinding between 30 and 150 RPM.

You also might want to refer to this video:
video

For beans that I'm not worried about stalling, my normal use case for the grinder is to start the motor, recommended in the instructions, dump in the RDT'd dose ~17g, knock the wet beans that stick to the funnel into the chamber, turn off the grinder when it's done, weigh the result and look for any missed beans on the funnel if it's too low (black funnel and coffee beans don't mix).

For beans where I'm worried about stalling, the only change I make is to feed the beans in slowly 2-3 at a time.

Feed rate and RPM of grinding both affect the resulting grind, as you observed when you changed how you fed beans into your grinder, and as the topic of the video discusses.

I'm actually curious if feed rate changes the dynamic behavior of the grinder, which interestingly enough can be explored with the Key, an appropriate camera, and some way to deal with the coffee grounds to keep them from blocking the camera. It's also likely to be messy.

Ha, ha...that James Hoffman video is a great find. My grinder does not allow for varying the rpm but does grind at a relatively low speed of 120 rpm. Would I like control over the rpm...as a retired research scientist the answer is Yes! So now for you cool Key kids to compare apples to apples, one must state whether the grinder was on or off prior to adding the beans, feed rate of the beans, grind setting, rpm setting...did I miss any other parameters?

I'm beginning to like this grinder!