Someone earlier posted 3-4s for a step, which I find rather large given the step size.

Would anyone at this point try to design a flow control disc to the key similar to the niche?

also, any idea what a good bellow to be used? not sure if bellows would help the grinder, i know it does with the niche and monoliths.

I think bellows would be a disaster. Most of the retention I see is from static from grinding w/o RDT where grounds stick to the bottom of the burr. With RDT, < .1 g as almost nothing sticks to the burr.

In the chamber itself itself, it's mostly chaff and the very occasional partially ground bean. When I've used a rocket blower, it just blows the chaff around.

BruceWayne wrote:I think bellows would be a disaster. Most of the retention I see is from static from grinding w/o RDT where grounds stick to the bottom of the burr. With RDT, < .1 g as almost nothing sticks to the burr.

In the chamber itself itself, it's mostly chaff and the very occasional partially ground bean. When I've used a rocket blower, it just blows the chaff around.

Is it 1 or 2 spritz for RDT with the key?

The key kills it in visual appeal, total eye candy, but I am a bit concerned with the most recent YT reviews from some well known folks. Wasn't Webers claim to fame that the HG-1 didn't have shaft run-out (wobble) and that was their main selling feature vs the Versalab M3/4.

Someone on YT commented "The beans shouldn't have the job of self centering the burrs". Is this really happening? Is the shaft moving during grinding enough to affect particle size uniformity?

I do not have an MC4 so I cannot comment from personal experience but This is from Kafatek website regarding the MC4. If we're comparing grinders in the price range, shouldn't we expect better from WW and the Key?

How is Monolith built and tested?

Each Monolith grinder is precision CNC machined in Seattle, USA to tolerances of 10 microns or less. Great burr alignment is critical to great espresso extractions so we use tight tolerances on critical parts. Each grinder is then hand built and most importantly hand tested. If there are any problems with parts during assembly they are rejected. Then each Monolith is not only tested that it runs and can grind coffee, but we make espresso by dialing in, by taste, our benchmark coffee (Vivace Dolce) that we are super familiar with on Synesso Hydra, Slayer or Londinium 1, then we compare those espresso shots to the shots made with our reference Monolith. If we are happy with how espresso tastes, we measure the extraction yields using refractometer and compare those also to our reference Monolith. If either one of these things fail or we are not happy with it, the grinder will not ship to you.

I don't want to hype the hype but I was really hoping for better reviews.

Is it possible when folks install the wiper that the center burr becomes misaligned (off center)?

flyguyjake wrote:The key kills it in visual appeal, total eye candy, but I am a bit concerned with the most recent YT reviews from some well known folks. Wasn't Webers claim to fame that the HG-1 didn't have shaft run-out (wobble) and that was their main selling feature vs the Versalab M3/4.

Someone on YT commented "The beans shouldn't have the job of self centering the burrs". Is this really happening? Is the shaft moving during grinding enough to affect particle size uniformity?

I do not have an MC4 so I cannot comment from personal experience but This is from Kafatek website regarding the MC4. If we're comparing grinders in the price range, shouldn't we expect better from WW and the Key?

How is Monolith built and tested?

Each Monolith grinder is precision CNC machined in Seattle, USA to tolerances of 10 microns or less. Great burr alignment is critical to great espresso extractions so we use tight tolerances on critical parts. Each grinder is then hand built and most importantly hand tested. If there are any problems with parts during assembly they are rejected. Then each Monolith is not only tested that it runs and can grind coffee, but we make espresso by dialing in, by taste, our benchmark coffee (Vivace Dolce) that we are super familiar with on Synesso Hydra, Slayer or Londinium 1, then we compare those espresso shots to the shots made with our reference Monolith. If we are happy with how espresso tastes, we measure the extraction yields using refractometer and compare those also to our reference Monolith. If either one of these things fail or we are not happy with it, the grinder will not ship to you.

I don't want to hype the hype but I was really hoping for better reviews.

Looking at the distribution of the Monolith conical I really did not see it perform much different and allot better then other conical grinder. That said I do believe his approach of tight machining of the entire grinder and it's overall design is a better approach, but the last bit is only something you can really do in a low volume and not something that is realistically and practical for manufacturers like Weber and it is more a way to check you didn't installed a under par burrset. He probably doesn't toss the grinder out but most likely just the burr and put a new set in that is then tested.

I have yet to see a shaft designed grinder to be nearly as well aligned as the other type or well perhaps except the Titus, therefore I'm always sceptical when I see that design due to its long history with alignment issues.

I haven't been following this in great detail, and probably ought to watch the videos before commenting, so forgive me if this is a little ignorant ...

I seem to remember that a feature of the Key that Weber were touting early on was the ability to move the outer burr in the horizontal plane so that users could correct alignment? Did that make it to the production version? And does that fix the alignment problems people are talking about?

The burr carrier appears to be the same as the HG-2, and the concentric adjustment bolts are present, so the same adjustment should be possible.

In my understanding, the upstream discussion has been about burr wobble/alignment due to the inner burr being mounted at the end of a long axle. If the axle has a significant deviation, it will wobble regardless of concentric alignment. The longer the axle, the straighter (and stronger) it needs to be to keep the inner burr centered. Then, there's the question of what are the machined tolerances for the burrs themselves, since an off balance inner burr will wobble as it rotates, regardless. Since the design has been used with the HG-1 and HG-2, I would expect similar performance to those grinders at hand grinder speeds.