Jonk wrote: I have been pulling light roast espresso with smaller conicals (38/47/63mm) for some time and prefer it over traditional flat burr grinders. Some beans I have struggled with and for those I do prefer the 64mm SSP unimodal burrs. My conclusion is that I need more than one grinder

I agree with you. I bought a few light roasts from Tim Wendelboe a few months ago. I found that it was very easy to get a great flavor profile using my Niche or my Commandante with some coffees, especially when their natural flavor profile was traditional (chocolate and nut)- and my machine is an old-school HX with no preinfusion. But some fruiter blends were very challenging and I continually wonder whether I'd have better luck with a flat burr in those cases.

Jonk wrote: My conclusion is that I need more than one grinder

This exactly is my fear I think I am going to pair my Lagom with Key and just live with that decision, or at least I will be able to enjoy a few months until I finally decide what is for me.

Jonk wrote:My conclusion is that I need more than one grinder

But of course . Maybe me too. I am thinking that the Key fits both what I drink and my aesthetic sense better, so start there... And if/when I get that lever and/or decide to try pour over (less counter space!) I may venture into flat territory and something like the P64.

By then, though, "THEALL" from Ozik and it's dual 80 mm flat and 83 mm conical burrs) may be available. Oh, trouble... (Though I think I'd rather have those separated as I will end up with two coffee areas.)

I do like their idea of a "bean thruster" (like I also like the Kafatek's idea of the pancake burrs for pre-grind). But I am finally ready to buy a grinder. Too many annoucements without timelines and grinder p0rn. (Ozik HB thread is here.)

drH wrote:I agree with you. I bought a few light roasts from Tim Wendelboe a few months ago. I found that it was very easy to get a great flavor profile using my Niche or my Commandante with some coffees, especially when their natural flavor profile was traditional (chocolate and nut)- and my machine is an old-school HX with no preinfusion. But some fruiter blends were very challenging and I continually wonder whether I'd have better luck with a flat burr in those cases.

Hey DrH congrats on the Livi it looks amazing! I know I'm in the early stages (new grinders and incapable machine "robot" sux with lighter roasts) but I'll tell you my findings so far with medium and dark roasts.
Straight Espressos ~ Large Flats (I hate that it tastes good and in only 25-45g) so less espresso more americanos
Hot Americanos - Large Conical
Iced Americanos - Large Flat
I thought they were my findings alone then I saw someone posting the same findings except he added one more which I haven't tried yet.
Milk Drinks - Large Conical
I know that you like to geek out and experiment a lot that's why I'm interested in your findings as well.

Jonk wrote:I don't think so, unless you're talking about unimodal flats and then it's really for pour over and filter roast espresso where the split starts for me.

FWIW my Mazzer Mini has flat burrs. 58 mm. I toyed with the idea doing the Super Jolly carrier update, which would open the door to using the same SSP burrs as in the Option-o P64 if I wanted, but never got to it. Maybe that'll be my flat option with high retention for decaf/girlfriend (she doesn't care, and I'd be tempted w/ the Wong doserless kit).

This to say that I guess I have no idea what a conical burr grind will taste . Willing to try, though.

Frenchman wrote:I toyed with the idea doing the Super Jolly carrier update, which would open the door to using the same SSP burrs as in the Option-o P64 if I wanted, but never got to it.

That will work, but considering the cost of new carriers and a Wong kit it might be more economical these days to sell the Mini and buy a DF64 instead.

Ad-85 wrote:incapable machine "robot" sux with lighter roasts

I disagree with this as well. Anyway, sorry for venturing off topic. Exciting to see the Key launch!

Jonk wrote:[...] sell the Mini and buy a DF64 instead

Not a fan of the DF64 looks and quirks, though a converted Mini may be pretty quirky too. Which is why I'm excited about the Key I can always shop for a flat/convert the Mini later.

Not exactly unimodal. From their Instagram story, ground with the Key.

I noticed this too and was surprised. We know the burrs are good, so what's going on? From this and the earlier workflow video, it feels like they outsourced their marketing content production to some firm that doesn't know much about or make much coffee. I hope that doesn't end up being reflected in the grinder as well (and expect it will not be since the HG-2 seems good so far?).

This grinder uses the same burrs already in use at Weber. I have zero concern the grind won't be appropriate, especially considering who is designing and especially manufacturing it.