I'm in. I'm getting by now and want to upgrade. This checks a lot of boxes so why not. I like the concept.

Now that we have more views of the grinder, and given the emphasis on size, I personally would have preferred 68mm or 71mm burrs and the resulting 12-15mm narrower burr holder. However, marketing sells products, as people think bigger is better.

jbviau wrote:I'll reserve judgment since the recording might not be 100% representative, but while running the grinder sounds pretty awful to me in this video.

After hearing the Lagom P-64 in Hoffman's video, all other grinders sound (to me) like jet engines. The first thing I inquired about KEY was the noise and as you said - it was not encouraging. I am glad to see Doug Webber chiming in to address this.

Anybody cares to speculate one performance of the Lagom P-64 vs this? I was looking at the Lagom until I saw the Key. I do like the form factor of the Key better, as well as the fact that *finally* someone is making a grinder with a 110-230 V power supply. Haven't paid attention to the noise, will look for that video again.

Jshot wrote:So, who's in?

I am. Has anybody figured out what the paint is on both, and its durability? A $200 upcharge for black better be backed by some quality finish, and then we want the same quality on the white too .

Same price for white or black. At least during the launch.

Frenchman wrote:Anybody cares to speculate one performance of the Lagom P-64 vs this? I was looking at the Lagom until I saw the Key. I do like the form factor of the Key better, as well as the fact that *finally* someone is making a grinder with a 110-230 V power supply. Haven't paid attention to the noise, will look for that video again.

As a Lagom user, I would say that depends on what roast you like. If you are a medium-dark, dark person I would say go for conical, if you want more clarity with medium, medium-light beans go for flat P64 HU burrs. Talking about espresso I do not drink much filter coffee.

I am considering buying Key to set it up with a lever machine for medium-dark full-body comfort shots.

kidloco wrote: you want more clarity with medium, medium-light beans go for flat P64 HU burrs

Is the medium/medium-light vs medium& dark split between flats and conical really that clear? I've read many, many threads here about that and it still does not seem like a clear conclusion to me (here's a random one from a Web search). Also it may depend on one's goal? I am not trying to get the same taste as a pour over of a light roast in espresso form, nor do I intend to (or can) play with lots of profiling and long, low temperature and low pressure extractions. At least I don't think so. But I will admit not having tried the lighter coffees. I'd like to, but I find few roasters give that information (e.g., I just got some espresso beans from Kuma Coffee and that's not something they categorize, though it seems like a lighter roast to me than Zoka's medium for example).

I have a Linea Mini (connected, which means the two variables I can play with easily are temperature and the time of the Mini's preinfusion), and an older Mazzer Mini I have meant to replace for a while. While I used to drink ristrettos exclusively for many years, I have mostly been drinking cappuccinos in the morning for the last ten years, probably. I am trying to enjoy espresso as is again. Would a flat grinder be better than a conical? I can't tell (sadly). I am not trying to separate a bunch of tasting notes out, but had nice rounded espressos, though not necessarily "comfort, dark" ones. It's been a long while since I moved away from Espresso Vivace's kind of darker roasts.

So I am indeed at a loss! I would be curious (and especially since you have a Lagom P-64) to know, too, the difference a bigger (83 mm) conical makes vs a smaller (64 mm) flat. FWIW, based on Option-O's description of their burrs, I would probaby go with the high uniformity burrs (assuming I could buy the grinder in the US, as Prima keeps pushing restocking out, now to end of year). But again, that's based on what I know and not having tried to see if lighter roads behave well with my Linea Mini or if i would like them.

P.S.: I *may* try pour over, but I'm more likely to add a lever machine first.

Prima keeps pushing restocking out, now to end of year

Did you contact Prima directly to confirm this, or are you going off of the new Availability status on the P64 product page on Prima?

Frenchman wrote:Is the medium/medium-light vs medium& dark split between flats and conical really that clear?

I don't think so, unless you're talking about unimodal flats and then it's really for pour over and filter roast espresso where the split starts for me. From the linked thread:

mivanitsky wrote:The current Monolith Conicals actually do very well with very light roasts, but some are still better on MAX, and underdeveloped roasts, which should really go away, still require a flat burr grinder, I feel, and are the only real indication for making EKspresso with MAX.

I have been pulling light roast espresso with smaller conicals (38/47/63mm) for some time and prefer it over traditional flat burr grinders. Some beans I have struggled with and for those I do prefer the 64mm SSP unimodal burrs. My conclusion is that I need more than one grinder