chipman wrote:The wipers on my HG1 are thin flexible plastic. they deflect when in use. They do the job they were intended to do. checking my funnel after a grind shows a perfectly clean surface.

I used the wipers on and off depending on the season/humidity. I always felt that with RDT it was never that bad but I typically used the wiper anyway in the winter when the house was dry.

rhtrevino wrote:I know style is subjective but I love the look of this grinder vs. the Niche. So I certainly hope the cup quality is there! Unless I can find a Monolith, I plan to get the Key in onyx.

The definitely get an A+ in style by my grading. I decided to move on to another grinder because for that money I felt like alignment shouldn't be done by feel or by eye. There are grinders out there that are factory aligned to much tighter standards. Say what you will but that was a deciding factor for me. I still have my HG-1 and will keep it to lend to friends and family that would have used a blade grinder anyway.

LBIespresso wrote: The definitely get an A+ in style by my grading. I decided to move on to another grinder because for that money I felt like alignment shouldn't be done by feel or by eye. There are grinders out there that are factory aligned to much tighter standards. Say what you will but that was a deciding factor for me. I still have my HG-1 and will keep it to lend to friends and family that would have used a blade grinder anyway.

Which grinder are you referring to that would best the Key for the money?

Greetings all,

Just joined recently and been folllowing a couple of threads. Recently purchased an HG-2 which utilises most of the what is going to be on the Key from my understanding. Same burrs, same Magic Tumbler, WDT, wiper etc albeit one is motorised vs hand ground with a the fly wheel etc, so for what it's worth I can give a few comments on what I understand to be overlapping areas/common parts:

Straight out of the box, you can see it's very well put together and well finished, pretty much flawless. I don't expect anything to be perfect as there is no such thing as perfection on this planet. After scouring many posts that HG-1 users have made, concerns about seasoning were laid to rest, it literally worked very well straight out of the box once dialled in. The grinds fall beautifully in a uniform circular manner into the tumbler and I have no need for WDT when after I transfer my coffee grounds into a portafilter - you just need to get used to the flow. Is it perfectly level all the time? Of course not, it depends on how well you swirl from tumbler into the portafilter basket.

I've had no rubbing issues. What I can see is that for example, when you say coarsen up the grind setting to make a bigger opening for cleaning (so the gap between the upper and lower burr increases), as the wiper which is attached to the smaller burr housing, the plastic wiper will - of course sit lower in the tapered shaped tumbler - which of course is going to rub - but you wouldn't normally use this setting.

Extractions have been very pleasant on variety of beans from med to medium light, Ethiopian to South American, I haven't tried the darkest of Full City/Italian roasts whatever you prefer to call them. For a typical shot it is so easy to dial in the grinder and get a lovely espresso within that 24-26 sec range (if you want to be SCA pedantic about it). From the few limited tests I've done on the VST refractometer, no issues hitting that so called "golden cup range" if anyone cares for that.

I've been amazed at the build quality, the ease of use and changing grind settings. For those wondering how fine it can go, when I first got it, I had it dialled way too fine nothing was coming out of of the group head - more like a Turkish level grind size by accident - hope that helps to clarify some issues.

Almost forgot to add, retention is really negligible with or without RDT.

Bean Counter

ira wrote:Does Apple ever show anything that's not finished? That's where they claim they learned from. Look, I'm sure it will be a great grinder for 90+% of the people who buy it. Our question is will it be great for 100%? Would making sure the burrs were better than "factory alignment" improve that to 99+%? I don't know the answers, but they deserve the questions because of the pedestal they put themselves on.

Ira

Yes. Beta operating systems. Today was an example of that.

Jshot wrote:Which grinder are you referring to that would best the Key for the money?

I was speaking about my experience with the HG-1. I haven't had the opportunity to try the Key. I'll admit to being disappointed to read what I have read here about the alignment though. All while marveling at the beauty of it's form.

As for value, what is worth spending more on is a personal choice that I wouldn't want to make for anyone else. My gear is great value for me and would be a foolish waste of money for most of my friends and family.

If you want to debate what grinder is better than the Key, I'm not your guy. If you want to hear my 2 cents worth of thoughts on the HG-1, pull up a chair. I'll even brew you I cup to sip while I opine.

LBIespresso wrote:If you want to debate what grinder is better than the Key, I'm not your guy. If you want to hear my 2 cents worth of thoughts on the HG-1, pull up a chair. I'll even brew you I cup to sip while I opine.

Sorry, wasn't looking to challenge or debate. Simply curious which grinder you decided to move on to.

I've got the itch to upgrade and so far I like the Key but in the process I stay open to other options.

I'll still take you up on that offer though.

Ooooo, Maui, can we do it at your place? besides, summer is the worst surf of the year for us east coast folk.

Seriously though, I moved on to the the Kafatek Flat, then I got a Max, and then I got the Shuriken Sweet burrs for my Flat. While I like the Max better, the improvement is marginal. The Max does a better job grinding for turkish though.

Are you intentionally looking to buy a conical? What beverages are you grinding for? Have you watched James Hoffman's high end grinder showdown? each answer will bring you better advice from the crowd here. But, in my opinion, the first question that people should ask themselves when buying gear is:
How much would you like to spend and how much more would you pay for marginal improvements?

LBIespresso wrote: Ooooo, Maui, can we do it at your place? besides, summer is the worst surf of the year for us east coast folk.

Seriously though, I moved on to the the Kafatek Flat, then I got a Max, and then I got the Shuriken Sweet burrs for my Flat. While I like the Max better, the improvement is marginal. The Max does a better job grinding for turkish though.

Are you intentionally looking to buy a conical? What beverages are you grinding for? Have you watched James Hoffman's high end grinder showdown? each answer will bring you better advice from the crowd here. But, in my opinion, the first question that people should ask themselves when buying gear is:
How much would you like to spend and how much more would you pay for marginal improvements?

Hey, if you or any other HB'rs are on island, stop by for a coffee. More the better.

I'm mostly using medium roasts for lattes so the conical (Niche) has been good for me. Aside from grind quality, retention and workflow are also important. I see the Key as an improvement on those three factors but open to any other grinders in that price range.

People are literally trying to diagnose alignment issues with a grinder no one has used yet based off *sound* from a video.

Not uneven grinds. Not a marker test. Not user reviews. Sound. From a video.

No one knows the grinder was misaligned and I can suggest a few reasons why I think it's more likely than not misalignment making the sound.

1. It's a wicked nice video. A good deal of time, effort, and money clearly went into it. It's the primary marketing material for a product launch. Does anyone really think WW would allow for an improperly aligned grinder to be featured in this importantly crafted vid? Let alone so obviously misaligned that it is obvious from *sound alone*? Using a misaligned grinder wouldn't make sense. WW is a detail oriented shop. They wouldn't let a mistake like that go in their main marketing video to which meticulous attention was obviously paid.

2. "Well what's the noise then?"

The main feature of the grinder is an 83mm conical burr grinder with a tiny footprint. The tiny footprint part likely required a great deal of engineering and innovation. This grinder isn't constructed like other grinders and maybe it's internals that make sound patterns that are different from the norm. Who knows? No one has seen the grinder yet.

3. "Well what about them advertising it's ability to be aligned? Must be off."

It's advertising, not mandatory disclosure for an IPO. Machines can have relatively tight tolerances and allow for easy alignment *at the same time*. WW could have advertised "perfectly aligned" and left it there. Doesn't mean every grinder is perfectly aligned. WW decided to advertise an "easily realignable" feature. Makes sense bc hobbyists love realigning even well-aligned grinders (see p64 thread). Their choice to promote that feature doesn't mean they're not well aligned at factory.

How do people think it looks? How are the mazzer 83mm burrs? Do the workflow features seem actually useful or just a gimmick? There are a lot things known about this grinder to discuss. Whether the grinder in the video is misaligned and whether the key is destined to have alignment issues is completely unknowable at this point. It may be an alignment nightmare...who knows (I sure don't). But jumping to those conclusions because something doesn't sound like you thought it would/should is just petty and hateful.

You've not been here very long, and alignment has traditionally been an issue with grinders of this design, including on occasion those of Lynn and Weber. They said it comes with "factory alignment" and could be improved, not me. I just pointed it out. Yes, it's a nice sized grinder and if they get the alignment it should be as good as anything else using those burrs which we all know, is very good. But, perfectly aligned things should not rub unevenly and whether it effects performance or not, it's not something I expect in that expensive a grinder. If it doesn't make you wonder, that's OK, but if I built that, I'd be embarrassed.

Ira