They are good value for money, mine was under €1000 delivered to my door they have since went up in price a bit.

The 2020 version have a worm gear to allow finer adjustment and some fancy trick on the electronics that reverses the motor when you turn it off, this helps with retention.

synic wrote:I like my Monolith Flat. I like the coffee it produces, I like how it looks. I recently switched from the SSP burrs to the standard burrs, as they seem to produce more body, and recently, I've decided I prefer body over clarity.

I don't really like the workflow, though. I have to WDT and RDT every time to get something that works. I have to make sure that my WDT is the same every time to get something close to consistent.

For this reason, I've got some interest in the Versalab M4. They claim that RDT and WDT are not required.

Since that is really the only reason I'd consider switching, I'd like to hear what others think about this claim. Is it really true? Can you just grind into the PF, tamp, and get something that is as good as if you did WDT?

Are there any other considerations I should think about here?

I have a Versalab M3. Echoing others, you do not need to do RDT / WDT to get excellent shot quality and consistency. I tried it, and if anything it made my shots worse.

I just grind, finger swipe to fill in the centre (maybe I shouldn't even bother doing that), tap the portafilter gently a couple of times to settle grinds, tamp, and you're ready to go.

Personally, I add the step of using a leveller between tapping and tamping because I'm not super experienced. I feel like it reduces the variability in my tamp.

The M3 a real pleasure to use, the workflow is just awesome. I like it even more now than I did six months ago.

I'm definitely going for the M4 upgrades soon, and I'm extremely happy with the workflow, small footprint, and overall functionality of the M3.

I recently upgraded to their newer wiper design, and retention, which was incredibly low before, now appears to be even lower.

No mods needed, just enjoy!

M3 user for the past 3 months now and I will have to disagree that this machine doesn't require WDT. I get channeling and uneven flow still so I need to experiment more.

My current process is 15g into a VST basket and my HX E61 machine. I use a camera air blower and give it a few puffs to hopefully dislodge any clinging grounds. Then hit the power button a few times to shake last remains. Every few times I still get a small dump a few mins later. No big deal. Then I push the grounds from the 'doughnut' to fill the middle hole up and give it a few taps on the rubber puck I turned into a pf holder. Then tamp using nutating method. The results are nowhere as even as with my La Pavoni & hand grinder combo - here the naked pf gets evenly saturated from early on.

I have ordered a distribution tool and see if this will help even out my extraction.

tinman143 wrote: I use a camera air blower and give it a few puffs to hopefully dislodge any clinging grounds. Then hit the power button a few times to shake last remains. Every few times I still get a small dump a few mins later. No big deal.

That is called "egg dropping" which can be a mix out of comprimated fines, so don't understimate that.
Use RDT to minimize it.

tinman143 wrote: Then I push the grounds from the 'doughnut' to fill the middle hole up and give it a few taps on the rubber puck I turned into a pf holder. Then tamp using nutating method.

Nutuation method is the wrong way.

https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/nutation-an-apology/

tinman143 wrote:I have ordered a distribution tool and see if this will help even out my extraction.

In the coffee szene, there is fundamental prov that a leveling tool is counter productive regarding TDS and extraction.
Reduce the speed to ~380 RPM on that brass potentiometer screw and you will see that this has a huge impact on reducing channeling.

You can get a laser RPM reader from Amazon for 20 bucks.

Terranova wrote:That is called "egg dropping" which can be a mix out of comprimated fines, so don't understimate that.
Use RDT to minimize it.



Nutuation method is the wrong way.

https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/nutation-an-apology/




In the coffee szene, there is fundamental prov that a leveling tool is counter productive regarding TDS and extraction.
Reduce the speed to ~380 RPM on that brass potentiometer screw and you will see that this has a huge impact on reducing channeling.

You can get a laser RPM reader from Amazon for 20 bucks.

Terra - thanks for your insight! My M3 has been modded by me with a new board and motor so I'm currently running it at 280 rpm. The knob is silver near the bean cup. I only tried nutating because regular tamping gave me the outer ring first extraction which drove me nuts. I'm determined to continue experimenting my methods to get it right including RDT. Cheers

Edit: I have both a flat base tamper as well as a euro convex base. Both producing mixed results so my problem lie elsewhere

Just a quick update here. I finally pulled the trigger and ordered directly from SSP a set of their 68mm burrs coated in Red Speed. It took about a week from the moment I sent payment for them to get it shipped off for coating and then shipping from Korea to the Bay Area. Hansung was super excellent to work with and he answered all my questions and shipped it fedex intl priority (2 days!). I'm super happy with the result and I no longer have the wonky extractions. I now just grind, fill up the middle with my finger, do a few taps and tamp. The old burrs were the culprit all along. Super happy with the results and I still need to season these burrs.

How old was your M3 when you acquired it? I remember John Bicht mentioning that they had a few machines that got shipped out with a batch of insufficiently ground burrs (which results in the exit chutes being too wide - even at the narrowest setting). That was many years ago though.

I still wonder about exit chutes. That necessary evil that prevents uniform grind - and yet is required to pull espresso shots.

That's my suspicion as well even if the burrs felt sharp. I was all the way near burrs touching setting. With the SSP I'm midpoint between 4&5 setting currently. Will keep an eye on things as they season. My rpm is 200 fwiw.

synic wrote:This is a photo from a Facebook group on espresso.

Is this a versalab? Anyone know what mods those are?

image

This is my lab, Honne is a great Versalab clone. I do both RDT and WDT on it.

BR

AssafL wrote:I still wonder about exit chutes. That necessary evil that prevents uniform grind - and yet is required to pull espresso shots.

Me too...