User experience with Timemore Sculptor Grinders 078 078s - Page 4

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
cari66ean
Posts: 35
Joined: 3 years ago

#31: Post by cari66ean »

cari66ean wrote:How far away is burr chirp from burr lock (of course in a turned off state) for you guys? For me it seems to be quite far apart and at burr chirp I don't seem to be getting any of the marker cleared off in the marker alignment test. It's making me think I have the same issue like some guy on the FB group in that something else is touching before the burrs are.
Out of curiosity I decided to measure and be more concise. So if I adjust the pin so that the burr lock when it's not running is at roughly 0 (zero), then I start hearing burr chirp when it's running at around 3. That seems like a huge distance between burr chirp and burr lock, so much so that it seems highly unlikely for the burr chirp to be the actual "burr chirp".

DaveC
Posts: 1774
Joined: 17 years ago

#32: Post by DaveC replying to cari66ean »

Or more likely the burrs are badly misaligned (assuming the grinder is totally clean and you are not noticing metal shavings).

cari66ean
Posts: 35
Joined: 3 years ago

#33: Post by cari66ean »

It would have to then be massively misaligned as well though, no? The grinds however look pretty uniform, definitely more so then a cone burr grinder and the taste is great too. Also as I mentioned earlier, when doing the marker test I wasn't able to detect any areas where the marker seemed to be rubbed of after turning it on and letting it run a little at burr chirp. Was a normal water soluble marker too, which rubbed off when touching it with a finger or so.

Entreri
Posts: 98
Joined: 3 years ago

#34: Post by Entreri »

Paird the 078 for filter with my P64 w/Mizen on espresso duty. Very happy with build quality, noise levels and result in the cup. Very sweet, juicy and forgiving. Worflow is mostly good, love the knocker, but hopper could have been slightly taller and steeper inside to accommodate larger dose and ensure that spritzed beans doesn't stick.

cari66ean
Posts: 35
Joined: 3 years ago

#35: Post by cari66ean »

Has anyone played around with grind speeds and compared the results?

I'm currently switching around between ~0.9 @ 1200 RPM and ~1.3 @ 800 RPM, which produce roughly the same shot times and flow rates for me. While I have to do more tests (and actually do a side by side) I seem to consistently get more astringent, less sweet, less balanced shots at 1200 RPM.

I know people like Lance don't think this to be the case - or at least not to be evidence in RPM changes affecting flat burrs - but to be honest the results seem to be quite noticeable even to an untrained guy like me.

The thing is I would in fact prefer to run the grinder at 1200 RPM. From my testing 1100 - 1200 seems to be the range where the motor seems to run the most stable and provide a very quick ramp up time, whereas at 800 RPM it takes some 8 seconds for the motor to ramp up and reach a constant speed. Therefore I tend to wait for the motor to reach a constant noise signature signaling the ramp up is finished before pouring in the beans.

Jonk
Posts: 2216
Joined: 4 years ago

#36: Post by Jonk »

Yes, so far my impression is also that there is a noticeable difference. This is with the 064* with burrs swapped to SSP LSv1. Only compared coarser grinds so far.

I haven't used it enough to be able to say I prefer one rpm speed over another. Probably depends on the beans anyway. It stalled once on 800, or rather the motor protection kicked in. Filter grind and light but not super dense beans. Probably need to keep it over 1000 or feed in the beans slowly to safeguard against that.

*we should have a separate thread for 064/064S

coffeeOnTheBrain
Posts: 634
Joined: 5 years ago

#37: Post by coffeeOnTheBrain »

Could you try to pull an espresso with the SSP cast? I installed the refurbished and they barely reach 6 bar when chirping and overfilling the basket when I use lighter espresso roasts. Alignment is a almost clean wipe, maybe 5 teeth that sr only partially wiped.

DaveC
Posts: 1774
Joined: 17 years ago

#38: Post by DaveC »

Jonk wrote:I haven't used it enough to be able to say I prefer one rpm speed over another. Probably depends on the beans anyway. It stalled once on 800, or rather the motor protection kicked in. Filter grind and light but not super dense beans. Probably need to keep it over 1000 or feed in the beans slowly to safeguard against that.
I am quite concerned that a new expression seems to have crept into the espresso vocabulary used by many, where stalling is now being referred to as "motor protection kicking in". Followed by recommendations to feed beans in slowly, or "hot starting" This isn't specific to the Timemore grinder, but many of the variable speed grinders and some non variable speed.

I'm mentioned it because as consumers there are certain things you should be expecting of any grinder, for the roast range of coffees availablee and I felt I should put this out there. Grinders should not:

Stall
Have to be running when you put the beans in
Require the beans to be fed in slowly
Have motor protection kicking in
Have a stated variable speed range where some speeds are clearly unusable


I am astounded that the espresso community is doing this to itself and then calling it OK? It's not OK, you need to demand better of the manufacturers. Influencers have had a large part to play in this as well.

Mods, feel free to give this it's own thread if you want..
★ Helpful

Jonk
Posts: 2216
Joined: 4 years ago

#39: Post by Jonk »

coffeeOnTheBrain wrote:Could you try to pull an espresso with the SSP cast? I installed the refurbished and they barely reach 6 bar when chirping and overfilling the basket when I use lighter espresso roasts. Alignment is a almost clean wipe, maybe 5 teeth that sr only partially wiped.
I have the first version, with a rough inner ring on the bottom of the burr. On the auger the burr seems to sit flush anyway, but the stationary definitely does not. It's a pain to align due to all the parts and screws, so I didn't bother. I've been pulling shots without issue with the same burrs in a Mazzer Mini E as long as the roasts are not too light. I did try it with the 064 with both 800 and 1200 just to check (I recall SSP claiming that low RPM was supposed to help. If so, 800 wasn't low enough). I could reach about 5 bars momentarily, but not true espresso. Taste wasn't great.
DaveC wrote:I am quite concerned that a new expression seems to have crept into the espresso vocabulary used by many, where stalling is now being referred to as "motor protection kicking in"
I'm aware of your gripe with this. Still, we need some way to distinguish between different modes of failure. Kind of like how you talk about retention. I agree that grinders shouldn't just stop, whatever the cause, but there's a difference when there's some apparent failsafe (in this case it wouldn't turn on for a few seconds, then finished the job without struggling visibly/audibly) or for example if it jams and stops dead in its track like I've seen a DF64 do (required disassembly). Then there's the Ode, that will usually power through but shake so violently that it can tip over. If you want to help come up with vocabulary for these different situations, that'd be helpful.

I'd rather have the option to change RPM, as long as it doesn't damage the grinder. If the 064 would stall at the high range as well, that's when it would be a major concern for me.

coffeeOnTheBrain
Posts: 634
Joined: 5 years ago

#40: Post by coffeeOnTheBrain »

Jonk wrote:I have the first version, with a rough inner ring on the bottom of the burr. On the auger the burr seems to sit flush anyway, but the stationary definitely does not. It's a pain to align due to all the parts and screws, so I didn't bother.
...
Thank you! Even though my redspeeds have a smooth inner ring maybe I should check the alignment of the moving burr once more.