User Experience: Kafatek Monolith Flat MAX - Page 61

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
FrancisK7
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 years ago

#601: Post by FrancisK7 »

I received my Max a week ago now. Upgraded from a Sette 270. It was loud but it was fast (grinded 15g in about 4s). It made really great shots when it wanted to. Consistency was the biggest issue. I hated that the settings would constantly shift and needed re-adjustment. My first unit also broke completely 8 months in, would not power on, and had to be replaced. It took me three tries before I could snag a Max. I was looking forward to see how the upgrade would fare in the cup.

I've only put about 1 lb through so far, so the burrs are not properly seasoned yet. I'm getting a lot of static. A lot of clumping and spraying. RDT fixes this but creates other problems, so I prefer to use Mr puff after the grind. The funnel that came with the Max is tall enough to prevent any mess from the spraying, and my WDT routine fixes any distribution or clumping issue.





Out of the 40ish shots I've made so far, one has been bad. The beans were older, otherwise I have no explanation.

I empty the cellar straight in the grinder, push the button, while it grinds I pour my milk in my pitcher, once grinding is done I press Mr Puff 3 times to empty the chamber, I WDT, level and tamp then pull. Perfect shot every time.

I haven't tasted the Cafe Lusso Denis shipped with the grinder yet. I prefer to season and dial the grinder with coffee I already know well. So until I've gone through 5 lbs or so, I'm going to keep using my daily driver. It's this amazing light-medium Honduran roast I get through a monthly subscription (2kg/month) with notes of milk chocolate, caramel, green apple and spices. I drink it as a flat white 95% of the time. It all transforms into a velvety experience that is honestly the closest thing I've ever experienced to sex in my mouth.

Initially I thought the coffee tasted milder yet cleaner. The total and consistent absence of any bitterness or acidity was surprising. I would get a little of either sometimes with the Sette 270. Max arrived set at 6.1 for the 18g shots Denis profiles with his 18g VST basket. I prefer 15g shots made in a 15g VST, so had to adjust to 5 immediately. As the burrs get seasoned I'm slowly heading towards 4. Expected behavior.

My wife has effortlessly adapted to the Max's workflow, the extra step of WDT which we did not bother with before immediately proved its worth in the cup so we quickly adapted.

I'm just not sure how necessary it is to level the puck with the wedge tool before tamping it, I know some people simply use the wedge tool set to a lower position and no longer tamp. Something I'll test later, I'm always looking to optimize my workflow.

I'm enjoying my PP700 but I'm definitely upgrading to a Decent 1.3 in the next year now that I have the Max.

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pcrussell50
Posts: 4010
Joined: 15 years ago

#602: Post by pcrussell50 »

FrancisK7 wrote: I've only put about 1 lb through so far, so the burrs are not properly seasoned yet. I'm getting a lot of static. A lot of clumping and spraying. RDT fixes this but creates other problems...
Interesting. I've had grinders with no homogenizing devices for years, including the FlatSSP I have now. So I've been doing RDT that whole time. Other than a few extra seconds which for me is inconsequential since I rarely make more than six shots a day, I have not identified any other problems. But maybe I'm missing something? Though most of the complaints I've heard about RDT are from home baristas looking to shorten their workflow, willing (eager), to forgo it, if the benefit is perceived as small.

What have you observed in the way of problems caused by RDT?

I do it every shot, every grinder, every coffee nowadays. Even grinders I thought didn't need it... turns out are even better still with it, even if only a little.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

FrancisK7
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 years ago

#603: Post by FrancisK7 »

pcrussell50 wrote:What have you observed in the way of problems caused by RDT?
It makes the coffee stick to the funnel.

The same behavior happens without RDT because of static, but a light tapa-tapa makes it all fall in the PF, which is not the case if I RDT.

Since I have to WDT anyway, it's either RDT or Mr Puff in my case, and Mr Puff is easier to work into the workflow.

That said if the clumping and spraying does not stop after I've seasoned the burrs with let's say, 10 lbs, I will consider changing my approach.

Are you saying there's a difference in the cup?

Bret
Posts: 611
Joined: 8 years ago

#604: Post by Bret »

With regard to RDT, I definitely found it useful with my Flat. One thing I observed is that different roasts can work best with different amounts of RDT misting. In my case, Josuma Malabar Gold works GREAT with 3 pumps of mist, and the local roast I use will stick and cling a lot with 3, but works perfectly with 2 pumps. I tried 2 pumps on the Malabar Gold and it was a messy static result. That difference may be indirectly associated with specific coffees, it may be more tied to the grind setting each one requires (which is also different: Malabar Gold requires finer grind). I suppose it could be both: the same grind setting for two different coffees might still require different RDT amounts: either way, it is easy enough to get to the right RDT quickly, so I just associate with the coffee, just like I have different grind settings for different coffees, and that just keeps it simple. The small variation in grind settings for one coffee as it ages a bit have never been enough to require different, grind setting based changes in RDT (at least not for me, and not so far...).

Doing completely identical RDT for every roast sounded good to me because we tend to assume some consistency is always good. RDT definitely can cause problems, but the option to vary it by roast, etc., is there to experiment with just like dialing in a grind setting.

FWIW, over at least 2 years now, the RDT per coffee type has never changed for those two coffees. If I forget when shifting to the other coffee and autopilot the other RDT pump count, I'll consistently get either the slightly sticky problem or the static issue). And 'dialing it in' for a new roast is as simple as try 2 pumps first, if it still seems static is an issue, bump it up to 3 on the second shot. I've never found 1 pump or 4 pumps to be necessary in my case. I tend to avoid the third wave coffees, though, and it might different for those, but I have never tested that out.

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spressomon
Posts: 1904
Joined: 12 years ago

#605: Post by spressomon »

FWIW, my 3+ year old Monolith Flat (standard burr set) only takes one short pump of the spritzer Denis included. Roast level, bean type, bean volume, high desert 5000' dry air or right on the coast humid sea level doesn't make a difference.
No Espresso = Depresso

DaveB
Posts: 955
Joined: 6 years ago

#606: Post by DaveB »

{using a well-seasoned conical} I found that with RDT, the wet beans would almost always stick to my weighing cup and were a bit of a pain to pour into the funnel compared to dry beans. Sometimes I would find beans stuck in the funnel after grinding. I tried skipping RDT to see what would happen. l didn't notice any difference in retention with RDT, but I did notice slightly faster grinding and a prettier looking pile of grounds - neither of which matter much to me. Between using Mr Puff and removing and tapping out the .1 to .2 g occasionally stuck in the chute, I'm always within .1 of what I put into the grinder, if not dead on. Good enough for me! 8)
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Idfixe
Posts: 248
Joined: 8 years ago

#607: Post by Idfixe »

Just got my MAX, first few shots had lots of static no matter if I spray or not. This was expected. Will report again once I burrs are seasoned. Substantially slower but more consistent than my Peak.

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cunim
Posts: 94
Joined: 5 years ago

#608: Post by cunim »

I am confused by reports that some users do not have static with the flats (Max or standard). I RDT every time, use the puffer, and my flat is still one messy grinder. I was hoping to hear that the Max is less prone to static (an excuse to upgrade) but that does not appear to be the case. Why do I RDT if it does not solve static? I find that, with the medium roasts I prefer, the flat needs more internal cleaning if I do not RDT. Cleaning just involves sticking a brush up the exit spout into the chamber, twirling it, removing the brush and then running the grinder. Repeat half a dozen times and it's clean. With RDT I only need to do that every half dozen cups or so. Without RDT, grind fineness adjustment tends to clog up after just a few cups. Does the Max need frequent cleaning with/without RDT?

mivanitsky (original poster)
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Posts: 1272
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#609: Post by mivanitsky (original poster) »

RDT needs to be very light with MAX at espresso grind for light roasts. Just 1/3-1/2 of a spray with the provided spray bottle from Denis. The Amazon-sold vermouth spritzer may work better for some people. I also notice that I get more sticking of beans in the funnel with my silver funnel vs. my black ones, on the 3 MAXs to which I presently have access.

MAX calms down a lot after break-in, but makes tasty espresso from the start. Breakin may be faster with current grinders, as they are aligned even better than any of mine. Denis' experiments with polished MAX burrs suggest that breakin is due mostly to smoothing of texture on the flat surfaces of the burrs, and the process takes longer with the coated burrs than with the plain ones. Tolerances have improved with improvement of tooling and process, without any change of the burr carrier/chamber geometry.

wai2cool4u
Posts: 145
Joined: 6 years ago

#610: Post by wai2cool4u »

mivanitsky wrote:
MAX calms down a lot after break-in, but makes tasty espresso from the start. Breakin may be faster with current grinders, as they are aligned even better than any of mine. Denis' experiments with polished MAX burrs suggest that breakin is due mostly to smoothing of texture on the flat surfaces of the burrs, and the process takes longer with the coated burrs than with the plain ones. Tolerances have improved with improvement of tooling and process, without any change of the burr carrier/chamber geometry.
do you have any feedback with regards to the red speed vs silver knight coating used in the latest production of max?