User Experience: Kafatek Monolith Flat MAX - Page 60

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
mivanitsky (original poster)
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#591: Post by mivanitsky (original poster) »

Yes, but you may need to run your machine hotter for lighter roasts. Londinium R achieves hotter preinfusion by preinfusing at a higher pressure, without changing boiler pressure.

I have no opinion as to which method is superior, but I use MAX with LR at work with light roasts almost exclusively.

def
Posts: 452
Joined: 6 years ago

#592: Post by def »

Earthy wrote:Common practice seems to be to use a preinfusion with the max, particularly the 3 bar profile of the londinium. I own a profitec 800 that produces one bar PI. Can my machine extract the benefits of a max (versus the flat) on lighter roasts?
@Earthy -- I don't have a MAX, but I have a SSP Flat and pro 800. You can use a long preinfusion at boiler pressure to saturate the puck; if you want more pressure but not full pressure, then manually lift the lever and hold it back while allowing pressure to build slowly. Either method or a combination will allow you to grind much finer and extract more without choking your machine. For light roasts, use a bottomless PF and the double basket that comes with your pro 800 to be certain that your extraction is even and without dead spots. For most medium to dark roasts I use boiler temp of 120C; for light roasts 122C.

Earthy
Posts: 93
Joined: 5 years ago

#593: Post by Earthy »

def wrote:@Earthy -- You can use a long preinfusion at boiler pressure to saturate the puck; if you want more pressure but not full pressure, then manually lift the lever and hold it back while allowing pressure to build slowly. Either method or a combination will allow you to grind much finer and extract more without choking your machine. video
Wow, thanks for the quick reply! I have a Max on pre-order, but only now realized that the Londinium produces a very different PI pressure so you resolved that question! (Are you the same Pro800+Flat+SSP owner on the Kafatek forum?). To maintain the 3 bars, do you apply the negative force from the beginning of lever movement or only once the puck starts providing a resistance? Since I do not have a pressure gauge installed, could you tell me (approximately) how many degrees of lever movement are occurring during the 6-7 seconds to maintain 3bars? I know this is off the topic of the thread, so perhaps you can reply in private.

def
Posts: 452
Joined: 6 years ago

#594: Post by def »

@Earthy -- I will PM you for specific questions/answers on the 800, but generally I think the best strategy is to try different approaches to see how these affect extraction and shot taste, and not worry too much about where you are hitting X bar on infusion ramp. The main thing is to get a beautiful, even extraction combined with the best temperature, dose, grind, and yield for a particular coffee bean. These variables are discovered by knowing how different adjustments affect the taste of the shot, making adjustments to enhance desirable qualities while decreasing/minimizing undesirable qualities.

paborden
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#595: Post by paborden »

Was there ever a test between the flat with SSP as compared to the max?

Beewee
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#596: Post by Beewee replying to paborden »

I have both. What do you want to know?

paborden
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#597: Post by paborden replying to Beewee »

Do you feel there's a notable difference between the two? I get that there's a difference between the normal flat and the max, but I'm curious if the SSP vs Max stacked up similarily.

lloydalvarez
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#598: Post by lloydalvarez »

Do you feel there's a notable difference between the two? I get that there's a difference between the normal flat and the max, but I'm curious if the SSP vs Max stacked up similarily.
The consensus is that the Max edges out the Flat but it's not a night/day difference. For me, one big advantage of the max is that it grinds much faster than the flat which is pretty slow compared to other grinders.

pcrussell50
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#599: Post by pcrussell50 »

I have FlatSSP. Not particularly fast by current fad standards. My old Vario would do 18g in about 14s and that was considered fast for a home grinder back in 2009 when they came out. My FlatSSP is not as fast as that, especially for fine ground light roast.

BUT

I have a home barista mentality. I only have three to six shots a day. So I don't have any interest in shaving seconds here or there. For example I RDT and WDT every single time and it doesn't bother me in the least.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Beewee
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#600: Post by Beewee »

paborden wrote:Do you feel there's a notable difference between the two? I get that there's a difference between the normal flat and the max, but I'm curious if the SSP vs Max stacked up similarily.
The SSP Flat and MAX each have their strengths. I use it mostly for espresso based drinks but recently played around more with pour overs.

For Americanos, I prefer the MAX for its added clarity in flavour. However, for lattes, the extra clarity plays against it as there's not enough bite to cut through the milk. The SSP Flat is better suited or milk drinks but it's not to say that it lacks clarity and it also doesn't mean it muddies the flavour. It's hard to put a finger on it but the difference between the SSP Flat and the MAX is like the difference between a conical and a flat but at a much more nuanced level.

For pour overs, I'm still struggling to get sweetness from the MAX that I'm able to achieve with the SSP Flat when doing back-to-back comparisons. So far, I've tasted some amazingly sweet pour overs from the Hario Smart7 using the SSP Flat but haven't been able to quite get the same profile from the MAX.

As for grinding speed, they're both similar in speed when operating at their normal RPM (500 RPM for Flat and 350 RPM for MAX). The MAX was actually noticeably slower compared to the SSP Flat until the burrs got broken in.