@Jake_G - Thank you nice report!
Did you try the Kafatek funnel? I have found it works really well and looks a bit higher than the one you are using.
Also, while I get a bit of static with my MC3, it hasn't been so much that I feel that RDT is needed.
I have been amazed how easy and precise it is to dial in shots.

Jake_G wrote: With MAX, you turn it on, dump your spritzed beans into the safety cap, wait 20s and puff Mr. Puff a couple times and you're done. Like done done...

I'll put together some more thoughts on dialing in and taste over the next couple of days as I enter into the dark stretches of withdrawal and identify what I miss about MAX while I get reacquainted with my SJ. I was of the opinion that I liked the performance of my grinder on May 30th of this year...

Cheers!

- Jake

Thanks Jake for your review.

Can we say, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"?

Sometimes we need to step back to what we used to use to fully appreciate all the benefits of the new xyz.

I believe that faster, easier workflow makes for better-tasting coffee. Why? Because when it's easy you are more likely to keep dialing in until you've got the optimum dose and grind for a given coffee.

Consistency, of course, is absolutely required to properly dial-in a coffee, and the Kafatek grinders are at the top of the line in that regard.

FWIW, RDT was definitely necessary when I first got my Flat. But after my upgraded SSP burrs were well broken in, I stopped doing it. Hasn't seemed to affect the retention at all. WDT is still needed to get a picture-perfect pour, but I can't really tell the difference taste-wise from not doing WDT. I tend to do it for doubles but not for singles because if I do it for singles some of the coffee leaks out from under my Tadika 7g funnel.

Day One:

After fighting off the night sweats and involuntary convulsions of MAX Withdrawal Syndrome, I loaded up 18g of Olympia Sweatheart Colombian Caturra into the throat of Señior Super Jolly. This is the same coffee that Mike and I played with the most just yesterday with MAX and a Monolith Conical, pulling shots on his Slayer and my GS/3.

Single dose workflow on SSJ sucks.

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Can we say, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"?

Sometimes we need to step back to what we used to use to fully appreciate all the benefits of the new xyz.

Absolutely!

Ok, after what seemed like an eternity of sweeping, grinding, tapping, thwacking, brushing, pulsing, more thwacking and more brushing, I finally had a puck built and was ready to pull a shot. Two things stood out immediately. First, my grind was a touch too coarse. Not bad, but just a bit too fast. Second, was that SSJ needs more temperature than MAX. After another 2 degree bump, we're left with a shot that I can compare to MAX.

Mouthfeel is on par with MAX. This is a lightly roasted single origin that is roasted for sweetness. MAX is sweeter. If I had to characterize MAX with one word in contrast to SSJ or the Conical, that word would be Clarity. Flavors from MAX hit your tongue with such separation that you can nearly visualize the individual taste notes as they ring out. With a dialed in shot, they live together in a strange harmony that allows you to focus on each flavor and highlight it almost at will. Was that blackberry? Yes. Yes it was. I think there was some cocoa nibs in there, too. Let's take another sip. Yep. Cocoa nibs for sure. I could go on.

SSJ is good too. I still like what I make with it. If I had to juxtapose where it lies relative to what I had yesterday, it would go something like this:

•MAX wins on clarity and sweetness.

•The Conical wins in mouthfeel with less clarity. Sweetness is less prominent but the rich mouthfeel and texture makes up for it. Not worse. Different.

•Poor SSJ is right behind the pack in all accounts. It comes close to the mouthfeel of MAX and the clarity of the conical, with less sweetness than either. But bear in mind that it is lagging behind the best of the best here and what it produces is still very satisfying to drink. Just infuriating to produce

RobindG wrote:Can't wait for part deux!

I hope it doesn't disappoint!

Denis wrote:Not related to Kafatek but to mazzer. Jake are you aware of this? This was one of my grinder 1 y old bought new.

Yep. Radial play in the floating burr carrier is not ideal, but much more concerning on a conical than on the flat burrs in my Jolly. Tilting would be a deal breaker and thankfully the springs do a very nice job keeping my carrier loaded against the adjustment collar and all the surfaces are quite true to the centerline of the motor shaft.

Bunkmil wrote:Is that a custom made 3d printed funnel?

It is, indeed

Iowa_Boy wrote:@Jake_G - Thank you nice report!
Did you try the Kafatek funnel? I have found it works really well and looks a bit higher than the one you are using.
Also, while I get a bit of static with my MC3, it hasn't been so much that I feel that RDT is needed.
I have been amazed how easy and precise it is to dial in shots.

Thanks! I haven't used the Kafatek funnel. I designed and printed this one quite a while ago and it suits my needs quite well. I wanted one that I could tamp through and would hold the basket into the PF, as I run sans spring for easy basket changes and also to keep my portafilter hot while I'm building my pucks. I couldn't comment too much on the RDT front for other grinders, but for my Jolly and MAX both in my climate with the beans I've been using, RDT is a big help.

Peppersass wrote:I believe that faster, easier workflow makes for better-tasting coffee. Why? Because when it's easy you are more likely to keep dialing in until you've got the optimum dose and grind for a given coffee.

Consistency, of course, is absolutely required to properly dial-in a coffee, and the Kafatek grinders are at the top of the line in that regard.

I don't disagree at all.

I still have a few more points to get to, and I'm contemplating splitting this topic into a "MAX vs SSP Super Jolly" thread to avoid getting any useful stuff buried in a megathread and to allow for a few goat trails relative to the SSJ without detracting from this thread, but I'm on the fence about that...

More to come.

Cheers!

- Jake

Jake,

The Sweethart I sent home with you is the fresh stuff, roasted on 15 July, I believe. It is a different coffee origin, varietal, and roast from the one we had yesterday. That one was 7 weeks old.

Or did you take the old stuff too? If so, the fresh stuff is great, and enjoy it too. Edit: I see you specified the Colombian, which is the older stuff. Cool. Apples to Apples.

A couple other points:

I prefer kerfless funnel designs like Jake's, Tidaka, and Decent, over kerfed ones like OE or Kafatek. I use Tidaka.

I agree with Jake's comments on clarity, mouthfeel, and sweetness. Though MAX makes everything great, there are still very legitimate reasons to have a conical like MC3, Niche, or a Titan handgrinder.

MAX needs RDT more than the conicals do, though I do it for all grinders.

mivanitsky wrote:Jake,

The Sweethart I sent home with you is the fresh stuff, roasted on 15 July, I believe. It is a different coffee origin, varietal, and roast from the one we had yesterday. That one was 7 weeks old.

Or did you take the old stuff too? If so, the fresh stuff is great, and enjoy it too. Edit: I see you specified the Colombian, which is the older stuff. Cool. Apples to Apples.

A couple other points:

I prefer kerfless funnel designs like Jake's, Tidaka, and Decent, over kerfed ones like OE or Kafatek. I use Tidaka.

I agree with Jake's comments on clarity, mouthfeel, and sweetness. Though MAX makes everything great, there are still very legitimate reasons to have a conical like MC3, Niche, or a Titan handgrinder.

MAX needs RDT more than the conicals do, though I do it for all grinders.

Yep,

It's the old stuff that is still inexplicably excellent!

I agree regarding having a conical on hand. They are such different creatures that it warrants having one of each if you have the means.

I have the new Sweetheart (La Palma) ready for a shot in the morning. I'll see how it pulls at the same grind I tried this morning for the San Sebastian. I pulled another shot of the San Sebastian this afternoon at 205°F and it was divine. Flavors were more blended and less distinctive than MAX, but they were there. Burnt sugar caramel, crisp apple and dark chocolate were all present and accounted for. Im pleased to report that I still love my espresso, but I still genuinely miss MAX.

Today I was forced to move the espresso bar back from the kitchen to the enclosed laundry room where the plumbed HX machine lived because SSJ woke the kids up at 0630 this morning. BOTH of the kids...

MAX was silent by comparison. Both grinders are quiet when empty, with MAX outputting a steady and pleasant whir from the gearbox while SSJ just hums. When the beans hit the burrs in MAX, you just hear crushing. It's worth mentioning hear that inclined 98mm burrs are a special thing, indeed. Per Mike's instruction, I loaded MAX hot. The burrs are so big that an 18g charge drops directly through the funnel and lands entirely on the domed burr carrier. The low rpm and inclination of the burrs means than there is no difference in the first bean that drops down the slope into the bight of the burrs and the last one. They all lazily tumble across the burr carrier and cascade into the burrs as if you poured your dose onto a saucer and tipped up one end. The grinds cascade beautifully out of the spout into the basket until the last few stragglers finally give way and then the chaff comes out. This was interesting. A tap from Mr. Puff would dislodge any retained grounds first, and then it seemed that the chaff would lose its static grip and fall through the burrs. If I gave the grinder a rest without expelling the chaff and then went to grind another shot later, I'd get a puff of chaff out of it when I started the grinder for the next session. Nearly no discernable ground coffee would ever come out. But I'd get enough chaff to notice it. My workflow eventually shifted to just let the chaff fall out by keeping the grinder running a few extra seconds after grinding. Then I'd have visible chaff on top of Matterhorn, but at least I new my retention was under control

As I've noted before, SSJ sounds evil when grinding. The 1650rpm on the 64mm SSP burrs sounds like it is shredding the beans with an aggressive and load crushing/tearing sound that is far louder and less audibly pleasing than MAX. Heidi was not amused that both kids decided to wake up and pummel her whilst I was pulling my early morning shots. with respect to chaff, SSJ has a chute that holds 8g of ground coffee in it. Because of this. I dont see the stratification of the chaff from the beans. I also have to brush any whole beans and remnants from the throat of the grinder back into the burrs after they chew through the initial charge. Then there's the doser. Even if there were visible chaff sprinkled on top of the grinds, I would never see it in the basket due to the mixing action of the doser as I'm thwacking away. I do notice when I use SSJ for bulk grinding french press that the doser gets covered in chaff, so I dont think the chaff thing is unique to MAX, it's just such a clean workflow that you actually see it.

Time for bed, more fun awaits in the morning.

Cheers!

- Jake

Hi Jake,
When I read your posts it seems to me that the taste difference between your SJ and the Max is not that big. I would expect a huge difference. Your writing is mainly about the workflow, sound etc.

Have you tried light roast coffee? Did you experiment with rpm?

Is it correct that taste differences were not that big?

Thanks, Niels

NelisB wrote:Hi Jake,

Have you tried light roast coffee?

Thanks, Niels

That could be a nice goat trail. Is Olympia Sweetheart a light roast?

Nope:

Flavors of dark chocolate, cherry, and hazelnut