You didn't understand what was written in the eg1 topic. If you grind at those setting for espresso how much you turn to reach brew? V60 settings?

If I put a scale sticker with many numbers between where I grind for espresso and my zero point that doesn't mean I have a lot of space.

A one more crazy assumption but this has to be checked since I don't know how he build the grinders. I can believe that you grind at ~4.5 for espresso, and this translates in 450 microns grind size.

This is usually a traditional 25-35 sec shot grind size. We were talking about 60-80 sec shots with 300 microns grind size. This calls for either a long preinfusion or a short preinfusion followed by a bloom, or else you just choke the machine by pulling in 25-35 sec.

what's the grind time for ~20g coffee at espresso settings?

Does anyone have an idea of when preorders might start for the Flat Max? Is it usually after they ship the Conical/Regular Flat? Just trying to gauge how long it may take before I have a chance to buy the Max. If it will be too long I may decide to purchase a different grinder.

chris_n wrote:what's the grind time for ~20g coffee at espresso settings?

I don't have the grinder but by looking at the video Reiss (Londinium) posted on his site, it looked around 13-14 seconds plus 4-5 seconds of palm cupping to expel any remains that might've left. So slightly under 20 seconds for 20g.
http://www.vimeo.com/319347540

Kafa74 wrote:I don't have the grinder but by looking at the video Reiss (Londinium) posted on his site, it looked around 13-14 seconds plus 4-5 seconds of palm cupping to expel any remains that might've left. So slightly under 20 seconds for 20g.
http://www.vimeo.com/319347540

thank you for that video! it showed exactly what i was interested in seeing.

Hi guys, what Monolith grinder do you think is the most versatile one for light and medium Espresso roasts and sometimes filter to complement my HG1? Flat Max oder Flat? Flat with Mythos or SSP Burrs?

Now that I have had some more time to really get settled both in with the Max and the Decent I've come to a couple conclusions on the two types of extractions that I find I really enjoy using the max for, and they fit on opposite ends of the spectrums. It took me a little time to figure out exactly what was and wasn't working and how to reproduce the positive results I found myself getting with short and longer extractions. This is all with light roast fruit forward coffees.

The first is probably what I am realizing in hindsight is probably considered some variation on the EKspresso style shot. A quicker extraction in 25-35 seconds, with or without preinfusion (depending on the coffee). I like to use PI, and in fact one of my favorite current profiles to use on the DE1 is a mimic of the Londinium R with the 3 bar pressure PI held for 12 seconds into a quick extraction with a flow that increases to 1 ml/s and is held there while the pressure declines. With this style shot I'm looking at a 1:2.5 ratio. The result is medium body, often creamy mouthfeel with balanced sweetness and quite soft acidity. Clarity is usually high with this type of shot. These shots can be drawn out to a 1:3, as well, but I tend to like the 1:2.5 to maintain some of the mouthfeel.

I became really happy with this type of espresso and have been primarily drinking it over the past month or so. What I found, though, is with this type of extraction if I pull the cup early as a ristretto the acidity will pop out, the sweetness will go way and the clarity becomes muddled. Which led me to wondering how to rediscover the uber-sweet, syrupy fruity ristretto. What I've realized about the max capability through the use of the DE1 with all of its precision and graphing, is that the max can easily over extract even a light roast. I've found that if I push the preinfusion too hard or extract a higher ratio espresso too slowly then I tend to get lots of muddle flavors, grassy earthy flavors, unpleasant acidity, and decreased sweetness. I noticed almost immediately that this very easily happens with the currently popular blooming espresso profile.

So again, I was still working out the question of how to pull the true light roast ristretto? The answer for me at the moment is to draw a slow flow long extraction, but to pull the cup at a 1:1 ratio. Essentially, the classic ristretto extraction. I'm talking 17g in/17g out in an 18g VST over the course of 60-80 seconds. I had completely dismissed this long drawn out extraction because my experience was that it so often, again, led to over extracted muddled flavors in the cup, and this is still true, but only if I draw it out past the short ristretto. If I pull it long and slow at a 1:2 my experience says it will not be a very tasty espresso. It may still be palatable, but will be most certainly lacking overall, and will be overwhelmingly dull. But if I pull it early at a seemingly crazy 1:1 or thereabout the shot results in high body, with intensly sweet flavors. Yes there is acidity, but it is not biting as it is balanced by how full and sweet the other flavors are in the cup. To me it is a stunning way to make true espresso with light roasts.

I'd be interested to hear if others with the monolith max are already pulling these types of extractions or able to reproduce the results that I am getting. I'd also be interested to hear if those with large flat burr grinders, such as an EK43 w/ ssp burrs have a simliar experience. Any other thoughts on how to pull the best with the max? Other styles of espresso or profiles people are using? I'm happy to post some graphs from DE1 to show what my profiles are looking like for both extraction methods.

RyanP wrote:To me it is a stunning way to make true espresso with light roasts.

What is a true espresso?
This? http://www.espressoitaliano.org/it/Cosa ... icato.html

My words don't need to be taken so literally in this context. Mainly pointing out that the resulting espresso here is thicker, full bodied with strong flavors. This is contrary to the lighter and thinner lungos we often think of with light roast coffees extracted as espresso. Both can be quite good, but very different experiences.

RyanP wrote:Now that I have had some more time to really get settled both in with the Max and the Decent I've come to a couple conclusions on the two types of extractions that I find I really enjoy using the max for, and they fit on opposite ends of the spectrums. It took me a little time to figure out exactly what was and wasn't working and how to reproduce the positive results I found myself getting with short and longer extractions. This is all with light roast fruit forward coffees.

The first is probably what I am realizing in hindsight is probably considered some variation on the EKspresso style shot. A quicker extraction in 25-35 seconds, with or without preinfusion (depending on the coffee). I like to use PI, and in fact one of my favorite current profiles to use on the DE1 is a mimic of the Londinium R with the 3 bar pressure PI held for 12 seconds into a quick extraction with a flow that increases to 1 ml/s and is held there while the pressure declines. With this style shot I'm looking at a 1:2.5 ratio. The result is medium body, often creamy mouthfeel with balanced sweetness and quite soft acidity. Clarity is usually high with this type of shot. These shots can be drawn out to a 1:3, as well, but I tend to like the 1:2.5 to maintain some of the mouthfeel.

I became really happy with this type of espresso and have been primarily drinking it over the past month or so. What I found, though, is with this type of extraction if I pull the cup early as a ristretto the acidity will pop out, the sweetness will go way and the clarity becomes muddled. Which led me to wondering how to rediscover the uber-sweet, syrupy fruity ristretto. What I've realized about the max capability through the use of the DE1 with all of its precision and graphing, is that the max can easily over extract even a light roast. I've found that if I push the preinfusion too hard or extract a higher ratio espresso too slowly then I tend to get lots of muddle flavors, grassy earthy flavors, unpleasant acidity, and decreased sweetness. I noticed almost immediately that this very easily happens with the currently popular blooming espresso profile.

So again, I was still working out the question of how to pull the true light roast ristretto? The answer for me at the moment is to draw a slow flow long extraction, but to pull the cup at a 1:1 ratio. Essentially, the classic ristretto extraction. I'm talking 17g in/17g out in an 18g VST over the course of 60-80 seconds. I had completely dismissed this long drawn out extraction because my experience was that it so often, again, led to over extracted muddled flavors in the cup, and this is still true, but only if I draw it out past the short ristretto. If I pull it long and slow at a 1:2 my experience says it will not be a very tasty espresso. It may still be palatable, but will be most certainly lacking overall, and will be overwhelmingly dull. But if I pull it early at a seemingly crazy 1:1 or thereabout the shot results in high body, with intensly sweet flavors. Yes there is acidity, but it is not biting as it is balanced by how full and sweet the other flavors are in the cup. To me it is a stunning way to make true espresso with light roasts.

I'd be interested to hear if others with the monolith max are already pulling these types of extractions or able to reproduce the results that I am getting. I'd also be interested to hear if those with large flat burr grinders, such as an EK43 w/ ssp burrs have a simliar experience. Any other thoughts on how to pull the best with the max? Other styles of espresso or profiles people are using? I'm happy to post some graphs from DE1 to show what my profiles are looking like for both extraction methods.

I do exactly the same things, with an actual Londinium R, and a Slayer. I am doing basically what you do with both machines. If I am overextracting, I will switch to the EPNW HQ basket from the VST. LR shots are closer to 1:2, and Slayer shots are 1:1-1.25 usually.

The latter is really the raison d'être of MAX.