User Experience: Kafatek MC3 - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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redbone
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#11: Post by redbone »

BaristaBob wrote:For the purpose of zero-retention I get the point of placing flat burrs on an angle...but is there an advantage when it comes to conical burrs? Seems to me that gravity would have it greatest effect in the vertical plane with respect to a conical design. :shock:
Was thinking the same. Has anyone done any analysis with non verticle conical burrs? Can't recall any other conical grinder not verticle. Guess small hand grinder are seldom held verticle when grinding and they seem to function and grind well. Either way new MC3 looks great.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
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PCJAnt
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Joined: 5 years ago

#12: Post by PCJAnt »

Niche Zero has conical burrs on an angle, I belive it is to reduce retention.

isabelo
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Joined: 7 years ago

#13: Post by isabelo »

BaristaBob wrote:For the purpose of zero-retention I get the point of placing flat burrs on an angle...but is there an advantage when it comes to conical burrs? Seems to me that gravity would have it greatest effect in the vertical plane with respect to a conical design. :shock:
Just from immediate observation, if/when the conical output is straight through (input -> burrs -> output), the tilting may not be necessary. But since the MonoCon has it's output offset, the tilting may help even more with lesser to no retention.

ds
Posts: 669
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#14: Post by ds »

BaristaBob wrote:For the purpose of zero-retention I get the point of placing flat burrs on an angle...but is there an advantage when it comes to conical burrs? Seems to me that gravity would have it greatest effect in the vertical plane with respect to a conical design. :shock:
But actually coffee out of grinder still comes out of side. It drops from the burrs down into the grind chamber then sweeper clears it out and it comes on the side, so I would think angle would help. This is Monolith Flat platform.

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Peppersass
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#15: Post by Peppersass »

At the risk of commenting on something I really know very little about (which rarely stops us, eh :D ), my sense is that Denis doesn't make significant engineering changes for marketing reasons -- i.e., just to release something new. Demand for the MC is far greater than his capacity or desire to produce them.

From photos I've seen of the pre-MC3 burr chamber, there's very little retention, by far the least among large-burr conical grinders, but noticeably more than my Flat (we're talking about tenths of a gram here.) Although the short ejection path and removable chute went a long way to reducing retention in the MC, tilting of the burrs gives the Flat a significant advantage, despite the ability of conical burrs to drive the grounds downward.

Denis isn't afraid to buck tradition or conventional wisdom, and is very creative, so he tried tilting the burrs. I'm sure it's made a significant difference to retention and may have leveled the playing field with the Flat. I would speculate that tilting the burrs increased the chance that gravity will cause some beans to lay against the front edge of the funnel, keeping them from getting down into the burrs. Hence, the addition of the sweeper.

BaristaBob
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Joined: 6 years ago

#16: Post by BaristaBob »

At the risk of commenting further on things I know little about, agreeing with Dick (Peppersass), what does Mr. Beta Tester Mike (mivanitsky) have to say about the rate of grinding with the tilted conical burrs vs. the vertical burrs? How long does it take 18g of beans to travel thru both grinders at the same setting? My bet is that the tilted burr design increases grinding time just enough to allow the burrs to do more work per unit bean. Does that make any sense, or should I have paid more attention to Dick's first sentence?! :?
Bob "hello darkness my old friend..I've come to drink you once again"

mivanitsky (original poster)
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#17: Post by mivanitsky (original poster) replying to BaristaBob »

Same speed as previous version. On the order of 1s/g.

mivanitsky (original poster)
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#18: Post by mivanitsky (original poster) »

Peppersass wrote:At the risk of commenting on something I really know very little about (which rarely stops us, eh :D ), my sense is that Denis doesn't make significant engineering changes for marketing reasons -- i.e., just to release something new. Demand for the MC is far greater than his capacity or desire to produce them.

From photos I've seen of the pre-MC3 burr chamber, there's very little retention, by far the least among large-burr conical grinders, but noticeably more than my Flat (we're talking about tenths of a gram here.) Although the short ejection path and removable chute went a long way to reducing retention in the MC, tilting of the burrs gives the Flat a significant advantage, despite the ability of conical burrs to drive the grounds downward.

Denis isn't afraid to buck tradition or conventional wisdom, and is very creative, so he tried tilting the burrs. I'm sure it's made a significant difference to retention and may have leveled the playing field with the Flat. I would speculate that tilting the burrs increased the chance that gravity will cause some beans to lay against the front edge of the funnel, keeping them from getting down into the burrs. Hence, the addition of the sweeper.
All true. Also, tipping the grinder makes the popcorning worse, hence the need for the deflector.

christosjr1
Posts: 13
Joined: 7 years ago

#19: Post by christosjr1 »

Exciting news indeed. For me though living in greece the absence of a European reseller makes it impossible to acquire unless I pay extra 500$ in import taxes .

Frisbi
Posts: 4
Joined: 7 years ago

#20: Post by Frisbi »

An european vendor would not change that "issue" (as the american prices are all net prices without any VAT). Most of the import tax in Europe is this VAT. Buying from a vendor here at the end you still would have to pay it. Most products (especially with electric components) from non-european countries (with official vendors here) are not cheaper when bought from one of these vendors than (legally) imported by yourself including the import tax and custom charges. You "just" save yourself the hassle and have a direct, local contact person in case of problems.
Indeed a official vendor would be great. But I am sure the grinder would only be slightly cheaper (if at all) than it is currently the case. In fact probably (for several reasons) it would even be more expensive.