Turin DM47 "open box" - a $169 grinder to consider?

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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baldheadracing
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#1: Post by baldheadracing »

I haven't see that much about this grinder outside of Korea and I was wondering if anyone else had experience with the grinder. I just picked one up, but have not used it long enough to say the grinder is 'good' or not.

Why I bought one:
I picked up the grinder as Jkim Makes installed the Kinu M47's pour over cone burr in this grinder a few weeks ago ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be1QcKYhNnw ). He said the combination tasted like the DF64 cast burr, but better. I don't know about that as I have never used any of the 64mm cast burr variants, but I have used the Kinu pour over burr in a hand grinder for four years now. Compared to traditional small (<50mm) conical burrs, I do prefer the Kinu pour over burr's taste for many medium to medium-light roasts.

The $159 now $169 open box price at Turin grinders was also very appealing, as the price is lower than 38mm/40mm electric grinders as well as many 47mm/48mm hand grinders. However, the price for a not-open-box Turin DM47 is $299 now $279, which is bit too close to the $374 Lagom Mini for me.

About the grinder:
The construction of the DM47 is all-metal. It is heavy at 5 lbs., but is a very small grinder. There is a separate universal voltage power supply spec'd at 24vdc/10amps. The grinder is available under multiple brand names depending on market. Although labelled under the Turin brand, the manufacturer of the DM47 is not the DF64, DF83, etc., manufacturer. The DM47's manufacturer is Guangzhou Maiwen Smart Technology Co., Ltd. - who are perhaps best known in specialty coffee for their double-burr reverse-turning hand grinder, although they do make a range of hand grinders and also a nifty base to motorize almost any hand grinder. A unique capability of the DM47 is that the grinder comes with a cigarette lighter adapter. That isn't a feature that I think that I'll use, but who knows?

For burrs, the Turin-labelled product comes with 420 (soft) stainless steel burrs. Fortunately, the burrs are Titanium-Nitride-coated, so the burrs will stay sharp at least until the coating wears off. As seen below, the burrs are close to the traditional 47mm/48mm conical designs, although other burrs are supplied in other markets. The grinder is spec'd to spin at 120 RPM, which is about the fastest that I would want for a grinder with traditional conical burrs.


Kinu pour over cone burr (with pin) / Turin DM47 (TiN) / Italmill 47mm/48mm

Is the DM47 a copy of the Lagom Mini?
No. The Lagom Mini looks like a designer was involved; the DM47 looks like a machine tool. The Mini uses a vertical layout; the DM47 is tilted. The Mini has a magnetized catch cup that is part of the design; the DM47 has a generic stainless steel cup. The DM47 has bellows and a chute knocker; the Mini does not. While both grinders are step-less and adjust the same way (rotating counter-clock-wise goes finer), the DM47 uses a unique step-less grind adjustment system. Unlike the Mini - and many other grinders - there are no springs, nor is there a bearing between the adjustment ring and the outer burr carrier. The outer burr carrier is threaded directly onto the adjustment ring. The adjustment ring has 100 divisions/markings with a 0.5 vernier. However, the vernier is on the adjustment ring, not on the fixed body, which is also unusual. If one needs to turn the adjustment ring more than once, for example, to go from espresso to batch brew, then there is a turn counter indicator inside the grind chamber. In the pics below the grinder is set for medium-roast low-pressure espresso - almost one full turn from zero. One advantage of the unusual grind adjustment system is that it is possible to remove the outer burr and expose the burr chamber for cleaning while retaining the grind setting.




One Korean review noted that the zero setting value (which isn't an indicated zero) changed from initial setup; that has happened to me. The setting hasn't changed since, so we'll see if the grind indicator will be stable in the future.

Why are there apparently so many customer returns?
I was a bit worried as there seemed to be no shortage of "open box/customer return" DM47's, as the web listing has been around since at least Black Friday, and purchases have been reported elsewhere. After a few days of use, I can see a possible reason for returns - the acorn nut on top of the cone burr wobbles during operation. This was quite disconcerting to see, but the acorn nut does not indicate that the drive shaft is wobbling. FWIW, the grinder shaft on my example has a total indicated radial runout of 0.0010" (+/- 0.0005") - a little better than the same specification for a Weber Key.


Note that the three cutouts are where the outer burr carrier's threads are slotted. The burr carrier moves up and down within the cutouts.

What's next?
Taste tests will have to wait until the burrs are seasoned, which will take me about three months. However, I have previously motorized a 48mm hand grinder, so I am not expecting the taste to differ from what has already been said about the Italmill 47mm/48mm and the Kinu pour over burr.

Stalling/motor cut-out seems to be a possible issue with light filter roasts and small conical electric grinders with DC motors. I can't say as I am currently pulling medium-roasted coffees from DoubleShot Coffee in Tulsa without issue.


So, anyone else have experience with this grinder?
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

Rytopa
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#2: Post by Rytopa »

That is a very good price u have gotten. I bought mine for around double your price.

I have been using it for about 2 years right when it first launched. Currently using it periodically for a change of workflow and taste. The motor is very strong, never had it stalled on me with the lightest of roast at espresso level. On the Chinese market there are a few burr versions available, Kinu version, C40 Version and Etzinger version commonly found in Fully automatic machines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQqOjEtRCXg The Etz version requires a change of the inner and outer burr.

I have been using the ETZ version paired with the LR24 with great results, This burr sets creates tons of fines, which plays very well with the slow and low PI capability of the LR24. Would be very curious to know your review after using the Kinu PO burr set which will likely be my next upgrade.

My guess why there are so many return sets are likely due to the complicated markings on the grinder, adjusting the grind settings makes me feel like some sophisticated machinist adjuting his tools, when half the time and i am getting Mind F*ked with the markings :roll: :roll:

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baldheadracing (original poster)
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#3: Post by baldheadracing (original poster) »

Rytopa wrote:My guess why there are so many return sets are likely due to the complicated markings on the grinder, adjusting the grind settings makes me feel like some sophisticated machinist adjuting his tools, when half the time and i am getting Mind F*ked with the markings :roll: :roll:
With the Kinu pour over burr, the stepless grind adjustment seems a bit too coarse for espresso. The vernier only gives halfway-points between marks, and ideally I would like to divide each mark into quarters to dial-in. No issues with pourover, though, where the Kinu is producing tasty cups, as expected.

I have alo been doing comparisons against my 38mm/47mm/48mm hand grinders. (Why do I have so many :oops:) The only solid conclusion that I have so far is pulling light filter roasts - either as espresso or pourover - is not the strength of the stock 'traditional' Italmill-style burrs - which is exactly as expected.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

LM21_2_Coffee
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#4: Post by LM21_2_Coffee »

How does your DM47 sound when it's running? I bought a new open box DM47 that sounds very buzzy/whiny when running, and the sound ocillates. I find it annoying and it does not sound like a quality machine to my ears.

I assume the sound is from metal gears in an rpm reduction gear box?

I also bought a DF64 Gen 2 that sounds fine.

That said, the sound won't affect the coffee.

DenisEAF
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#5: Post by DenisEAF »

it sounds like that cause of low rpm ±100 while your df64 has a a-lot more rpm. Centrifugal force centers everything but in conical burrs alignment is not important and in brewing you really do not want a even grind size you want a mix.

I have the dm47 with kinu pob but I had to import it from US, sa there is no seller in Eu and the price on aliexpress was bad.

BTW @baldheadracing your kinu pob is not actually aa kinu pob or it's one of the first gen who is closer to the original kinu espresso burr. The actual aand later revision of kinu pob haas much thinner cone ribs/spokes at the top, you might want to grab a newer one and test. I suspect the pob you have is a bit closer to the original espresso burr, and the newer one will be different. I have the newer version.

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baldheadracing (original poster)
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#6: Post by baldheadracing (original poster) »

LM21_2_Coffee wrote:How does your DM47 sound when it's running? I bought a new open box DM47 that sounds very buzzy/whiny when running, and the sound ocillates. I find it annoying and it does not sound like a quality machine to my ears.
If the annyoing noise becomes stronger/more cyclic when actually grinding, then I would guess that the wire sweeper/wiper in the grind chamber is the cause. The wire wiper is in addition to the four "normal" wipers.

A wire wiper is highly effective at sweeping grounds stuck on the sides of the grind chamber that are in its path. However, as the wiper is metal-on-metal and flexible, it can introduce objectionable noise. I have only seen the wire wiper on low RPM grinders - a DF64 won't have such a wiper. You can tune the noise by adjusting/bending the wiper or you can remove the wiper and accept whatever the additional retention is.
DenisEAF wrote:iBTW @baldheadracing your kinu pob is not actually aa kinu pob or it's one of the first gen who is closer to the original kinu espresso burr. The actual aand later revision of kinu pob haas much thinner cone ribs/spokes at the top, you might want to grab a newer one and test. I suspect the pob you have is a bit closer to the original espresso burr, and the newer one will be different. I have the newer version.
Thanks for the information; mine is from 2019 and I presume is the first gen. I'll have to order the new version.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

pham
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#7: Post by pham »

kinu pob is not actually aa kinu pob or it's one of the first gen who is closer to the original kinu espresso burr. The actual aand later revision of kinu pob haas much thinner cone ribs/spokes at the top, you might want to grab a newer one and test. I suspect the pob you have is a bit closer to the original espresso burr, and the newer one will be different. I have the newer version.
I was curious about this and I have both, as shown below:



Taste and grind setting wise, they seem very similar, both in a Kinu and in a DM47. In a Kinu, the newer one feels like it has VERY slightly more grind effort. Same grind time, but the main difference is that the new one does not popcorn as much.

TylerScottWard
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#8: Post by TylerScottWard »

I just received mine in the mail today. I am upgrading from a Shardor grinder my wife and I bought on Amazon a couple of years back. I plan to use it for espresso, are there and tips for the new setup?

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baldheadracing (original poster)
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#9: Post by baldheadracing (original poster) »

I'd predict the stock burrs will take a couple bags of coffee to settle down to be reasonably consistent. It's hard for me to say as I've had three burrsets in the grinder (stock, old POB, and now the current POB). The stock burr will be a huge upgrade over the Shardor - I know the posts above are all about the pour over burrset, but that really depends on your tastes and coffees.

The only unusual thing that I'll mention is the vernier. As you'll be using it for espresso, you will want to use the vernier - but the vernier only works for the "front" of the grinder (30 to 0 to 30 on the bottom scale). The implication is to not worry about "zero" - just adjust the upper burr - there are three possible positions - to get the dial so you can use the vernier. The espresso adjustment range is pretty small so you will want to use the vernier.

If the above paragraph doesn't make sense after you've used the grinder for a bit, let me know and I'll see if I can find/make a video.

I haven't used the DM47 with my Pavonis (yet), so I don't have a grind setting to recommend to start with. At the moment, I'm busy comparing the DM47 to the Weber Key (yup, a $169 grinder with a $50 burr add-on vs. a $2000 grinder :lol:).

Also, I always do a little bit of RDT because static is an issue here in winter, and to maximize consistency I always do WDT - but I do this with all of my grinders.

Good luck!
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

ojt
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#10: Post by ojt »

pham wrote:I was curious about this and I have both, as shown below:

Taste and grind setting wise, they seem very similar, both in a Kinu and in a DM47. In a Kinu, the newer one feels like it has VERY slightly more grind effort. Same grind time, but the main difference is that the new one does not popcorn as much.
Wow, I never realized this but I also have both :D Looks like on my older burr, one of the very first revisions, the cutting grooves are in a less steep angle than on the newer burr. I never got along with the original one but have since gotten used to the newer one. I wonder how many different revisions there are out there.
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