Turin DF83 - Page 8

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
buckersss
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#71: Post by buckersss »

Remove the declumper

Kevin_C
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#72: Post by Kevin_C »

I cut the little flapper door off the declumper, still clogs.

STG
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#73: Post by STG »

Anyone using this exclusively for brew? Better yet, anyone have feedback on the cast / "lab sweet" burrs for brew?

There are just a plethora of burr options out there in 83 mm it seems.

malling
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#74: Post by malling replying to STG »

I don't think it's suitable for brewed, the mentioned problem with regrinding and grinds buildup make it ill suited for the purpose also the dial ain't ideal for it... Cast would be much in the same ballpark as the Sculpture 078 on KS soon indiegogo. Or just wait for something else comes along we are bound to see more product as the market is on the rise.

Frankie4
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#75: Post by Frankie4 replying to malling »

I would have to disagree with you on this one. Been using DF83 for espresso and brew no issue at all. That being said I am running the DLC burrs which are standard in Australia so I don't know if that makes a difference over the standard steel burrs. Key is to flush a couple of beans through before you grind your brew dose or espresso dose when you switch back. This is pretty standard practice and something we have been doing for years on the EK43.

malling
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#76: Post by malling replying to Frankie4 »

The standard are not really great filter burrs, the DF range are espresso grinder design, the silicone flaps and the entire chute design is a massive give away and the use of Italmill burr even more so, those are entirely espresso focused and have way to many fines to be a good filter burr... It's incredibly slow and a bit of a faff making larger changes on that is in stark contrast to grinder with that in mind. Purely from use experience it's just not optimal for filter only usage as it's not designed for it. It's designed for smaller changes on the adjustment mechanism not going from one end of the grind spectrum to the other in a fraction of a second like filter/bulk grinders.

There good reason why most filter grinder take an approach much like you see on the EK with just a single turn dial. That however lack usually resolution in espresso range, so either work best for brewed only or in dual use applications, but is very limited as espresso only applications because of limited range in espresso, Zerno and Titus have changed it so it has more, but aren't the norm.

There plenty of user reports where people having massive issues with using V2 dual use because of grinds buildup and excessive fines in brewed, a few beans through can help a bit but it's not a miracle cure. For using this for filter you would need to do it like any other grinder not designed for it, remove the clump crusher/static aka silicone flaps toss beans through and bellow the heck out of it. It's a faff to say the least, it can be done but I would not go that route unless filter where something I only did rarely.

You might live in a place where grind builds up is less an issue, how bad these things turn up really depends on your environment.

If It was me I would much rather keep this is as espresso only and get something like a ZP6, Pietro, Ode for filter this removes this issue from the equation and you really have to spend big for some improvements over these we talk 3-4k grinders. The 78-83mm are usually just minor improvements if at all the 151G mazzer for example I don't actually find any better. The 83mm ssp MP and Cast I suspect we talk very minor improvements over those if those actually deliver what we hope.
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Frankie4
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#77: Post by Frankie4 »

I can't speak about the standard burrs but I can on the DLC and in my experience they perform well both in espresso and filter.

In regards to the declumper the DF83 does not have a silicone declumper. It is a plastic one and in V2 it is a single declumper whereas V1 had 2 which is likely the reason for regrinds. The DF64 did have a silicone one (and still does in the Australian version albeit a modified version of the v3 declumper) which, when new can cause some grind hold back as the silicone is still stiff however if you persevere over time it softens and performs a lot better with regrind and clogging reduced significantly. The problem is people rush to mod and "fix" their grinder however if you learn how to use it effectively it is often the case you do not need to mod it. I can say this as we have been using a DF64 in a commercial environment on a daily basis for about 2 years and have never had an issue of clogging.

Now are the DF ranges of grinders perfect? No they are not however I am sure you will struggle to find a perfect grinder. They all have some quirk and I can say this as someone who currently has 8 different grinders on the bench.

In regards to 83mm burr improvements I can't comment with authority at this stage (however will be able to in the not too distant future) however I have done testing with 7 x 64mm burrs side by side and there clearly is a difference.

This test was also done by the team at Alternative Brewing and their results can be found on their YouTube channel.

I will be running that test again with 9 burrs however we are looking to set up an environment where we can have a group of people blind taste the coffee and give it a score. Obviously something like this this has it's logistic challenges however we hope to do it in the not too distant future.

malling
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#78: Post by malling »

I think the main issue as always arises from us using grinders outside their main design, the clump crusher/static reducer in silicone or plastic (can also be metal in some grinders) are to solve a specific issue found in espresso grinding if you just use these for their intended purpose your more like not to run into issues. It's like being annoyed over 078s lack of range in espresso because it wasn't originally designed as one.

I have not tried DLC versions only the standard one.

STG
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#79: Post by STG »

malling wrote:I don't think it's suitable for brewed, the mentioned problem with regrinding and grinds buildup make it ill suited for the purpose also the dial ain't ideal for it... Cast would be much in the same ballpark as the Sculpture 078 on KS soon indiegogo. Or just wait for something else comes along we are bound to see more product as the market is on the rise.
Df98 can't be far away haha.

Yeah I already have Vario-forte and Ode Gen 2. Looking for "end game" brew grinder within my budget, currently 1500 or so. Might save for a p100 instead.

malling
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#80: Post by malling replying to STG »

Haha I don't think so, to get 98mm burr you need one to provide said burrs, the major makers for that are Mahlkönig/Ditting, Compak and SSP as third part but all are expensive from all 3 makers. This would go against their way of making it affordable. Also I doubt any of those would even consider supplying them with said burrs and it would require them to get another supplier then Italmill that ony do up to 84mm burrs.

98mm is just exclusive and expensive you would have to get some low quality unreliable Chinese made ones and it's so far not the road they have chosen

Also with Ditting Steel and Ode g2 I do think you need to spend big for a noticeable enough improvement, I'm not convinced that 078 is going to be that. Another problem with 98mm requires tremendous amount of torque and the build just need to be able to handle it.

I was actually looking at Wug2-83a as it can actually take blind 80mm burrs as well as 83mm and conical but workflow for money is well not great it's also not cheap.