Turin DF83 - Page 4

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Brewtonian

#31: Post by Brewtonian »

buckersss wrote: For 83mm, the compak pkf looks like a dream, but yea those blind burrs won't fit anything else that I know of. I'll let you know what I think of the k00812 compak burrs I have on the way.
Did you ever get a chance to test those compak k8 burrs?

buckersss
Supporter ♡

#32: Post by buckersss replying to Brewtonian »

Yep, I'm using them every other day in what is essentially a Ceado E37T. I think they are great. Disclaimer I'm no pro, but at $94usd it is a no brainer decision imo. They took very little to break in. They are smooth, with decent body. They are a little understated though, by that I mean the flavours aren't as intense as other burr sets I've tried. Also their isn't much clarity. I'm comparing to non 83mm burr set flavour profiles though.

I can't compare to many 83mm burr sets except the stock Ceado non opalglide 83mm burrs. I should have given the ceados more of a fair shake. They came off harsh at first and that turned me off them. I'll eventually swap back to them to try, but I'm in no hurry. At first blush the K8s are better.

I'll probably buy an SSP 83mm set in the future, but I'm undecided which I'd go for between HU, MP and Cast (latter two rumoured for 83mm).

JohnGalt1

#33: Post by JohnGalt1 »

I see you have both the DF83 and P64 in your picture, and you mention both. I am considering both but not entirely convinced that the price delta is worth it. Do you have thoughts with regard to comparison? workflow? taste in cup? does the P64 feel that much more premium?
LindoPhotography wrote: I don't think Variable RPM is really a necessity, but it is nice to have. You do get a little more flavour clarity and less body generally on lower RPM and higher RPM you get more body, less flavour clarity, also less retention (auto ramp feature on the Orbit or Option-o Lagom P100 would be nice, but you can manually ramp up on the P64, which isn't always necessary anyway). So variable RPM is nice to play with because it gives you a bit of versatility with the same burr set.

Other Variable RPM 64mm Burr grinder option that is slightly cheaper than the P64, is the Acaia Orbit, it doesn't have quite the low end RPM range the P64 does (slightly lighter weight and lower power motor on it than in the P64 as well) but it has some interesting more advanced tech, especially if you already have a Acaia Lunar scale to pair it with.

The Zerno's promising feature which may or may not make a difference is the auger system, which may also work as a pre-breaker but not sure. One source of grind inconsistency is the weight and feed rate of coffee, with an auger feed system, it kinda takes the weight and feed rate out of the equation so it's all grinding at a similar rate from the start of your 18g dose to the end of it. Not sure how much of an effect that really has on coffee quality whether it's negligible, or really makes a noticeable improvement though.

image

malling

#34: Post by malling »

LindoPhotography wrote:DF64 SSP MP is a very nice combo for quality light roasts either for espresso or pour over (coarser brewing), I think they're my fav. burrs for highlighting specific flavour notes.

DF64's stock burrs are kind of similar (but a few notches down in clarity and not so great for coarser brewing), but pretty high clarity and not very much body, however the DF83 stock burrs seem a bit different, at least before seasoning, they're more traditional style, good body and decent clarity too, normally it wouldn't be what I'm looking for but I have really been enjoying how nice smooth and balanced it makes espresso AND coarser brews as well. My theory is the larger burrs tend to be more forgiving, easier to dial in, and generally smoother, less bitterness or unpleasant acidity. DF83 burrs might start getting higher clarity as they're getting seasoned though, a few shots surprised me, so I need to do more testing :)

I think DF83 build is better than the DF64 and they seemed to learn some lessons from DF64s weaknesses, the declumper and exit chute on mine seems very well behaved with less retention. DF64 v4 isn't too bad either though (similar, but different declumper on that one now).
DF83 is just a little slightly louder or higher pitch maybe (with stock burrs) than the DF64, 64mm SSP MP burrs are also higher pitched I found. But DF83 is MUCH faster to grind. And if you want more flavour clarity, there are SSP 83mm espresso burrs (which I am tempted to get). They're more pricey than the 64mm SSP burr options though!

I don't think Variable RPM is really a necessity, but it is nice to have. You do get a little more flavour clarity and less body generally on lower RPM and higher RPM you get more body, less flavour clarity, also less retention (auto ramp feature on the Orbit or Option-o Lagom P100 would be nice, but you can manually ramp up on the P64, which isn't always necessary anyway). So variable RPM is nice to play with because it gives you a bit of versatility with the same burr set.

Other Variable RPM 64mm Burr grinder option that is slightly cheaper than the P64, is the Acaia Orbit, it doesn't have quite the low end RPM range the P64 does (slightly lighter weight and lower power motor on it than in the P64 as well) but it has some interesting more advanced tech, especially if you already have a Acaia Lunar scale to pair it with.

The Zerno's promising feature which may or may not make a difference is the auger system, which may also work as a pre-breaker but not sure. One source of grind inconsistency is the weight and feed rate of coffee, with an auger feed system, it kinda takes the weight and feed rate out of the equation so it's all grinding at a similar rate from the start of your 18g dose to the end of it. Not sure how much of an effect that really has on coffee quality whether it's negligible, or really makes a noticeable improvement though.

image
Also we could add that there is added another layer with vertical vs horizontal mounted, I always found vertical to be a tad cleaner and horizontal to be tad more mellow blended.

I do think the vertical is the better solution as your not surely dependent on centrifugal forces to expelled grinds and those reground is not a common issue.

The RPM control is potentially defeated by the larger burrs once 83 get comparable burrs with similar profile... If we look at the 98mm compared to the 64mm the larger version are cleaner, better seperation etc. the burrs can also be sweater and so forth. You do get a notch up in brewed quality with larger burrs and it dos seem a tad more complexed.

iyayy

#35: Post by iyayy »

i havent seen a vertical grinder with declumper. correct me if im wrong.
but perhaps the biggest contributor to reground actually is the declumper?
despite a lot of arguments, it seems more people keep it because they dont like mess and static?

malling

#36: Post by malling replying to iyayy »

It definitely plays its part, but a narrowing exists can also clog and contribute to this problem.

The Ode has in gen one some antistatic wires that didn't work in gen 2 a ionizer and Mythos that is tilted actually have declumber

LindoPhotography

#37: Post by LindoPhotography »

JohnGalt1 wrote:I see you have both the DF83 and P64 in your picture, and you mention both. I am considering both but not entirely convinced that the price delta is worth it. Do you have thoughts with regard to comparison? workflow? taste in cup? does the P64 feel that much more premium?
I really like the Lagom P64, but it's hard to compete with the value of the DF83.

You'd be happy with either option I think for grind / drink quality.

The P64 is well built and heavy, but DF83 is actually a lot heavier (added some lead weights in there? heh)
Quality control SHOULD be better / more consistent on the Lagom P64,
Looks and workflow due to the included accessories are nicer on the P64 (Portafilter funnel is magnetic and fits on the forks, no messy bellows, declumper doesn't need modification etc, it's also more quiet)
Variable RPM (on P64) is nice to have but I'm not sure if it's essential, it gives you a little more control and versatility with a single burr set.

P64 with SSP MP burrs should be best for high quality light roasts and really highlighting the flavour clarity. Maybe best for brew coffee as well, but some people find it not so well balance, not much body, more tealike texture, however, I'm not sure if it's because my alignment isn't great, the burrs got more seasoned or I just got used to it, or the way I'm pulling shots but I think the MP burrs did get more balanced after some time. The old Stock Burrs on the P64 were also very good, more balanced and forgiving. The new Mizen burrs sound like they should be similar but even better.

DF83 is also like that, good body and decent flavour clarity but not as much as I expected going to 83mm burrs. The taste is generally very forgiving and pleasant, I don't feel like it's lacking too much clarity usually. Removing or modding the declumper can get you a little more flavour clarity supposedly. There's also the SSP Espresso burrs that will give you better clarity, and supposedly still has good body too, I haven't tried it yet.
I find DF83 with stock burrs has a lot of low end flavour notes where SSP 64mm MP might have more high end notes if that makes sense (like bass vs treble).

IF they're in stock and you can afford the P64 I say go for it (Resale value is good too I think, but there are more 64mm single dose burr options out soon!) if it's a lot of money for you then the DF83 might be the more sane choice.

malling

#38: Post by malling »

The burr choice is about equal between 64 and 83mm, however 64mm has more higher end burrs to choose from while 83mm has more cheaper burrs to choose from.

For example Mazzer has a pretty noticeable offering on 83mm burrs, 8 in total I think. But the difference between them is definitely smaller then say the difference between the ssp hu, cast and MP.

That said SSP is working on new 83mm burrs, the next to come out is the Cast, that will follow the current line of HU and Brew. However it's $350/€380 instead of $220/€239 so it's noticeable notch up in price.

And I agree there far more accessories to be had for the DF64

LObin

#39: Post by LObin replying to malling »

If it's anything like the stock Italmill's and the HU , the 83mm versions should produce better results vs the 64mm ones, which is something to keep in mind. But yeah... The price of an 83mm SSP burr set alone is almost the price of a 2nd dedicated grinder...
LMWDP #592

malling

#40: Post by malling replying to LObin »

They made quite the few for the ZM so it might be worth given that a shot (k151F filter, k151G filter, K151B espresso & k151I hybrid) and Mazzer k151H that should be more clarity focused espresso burrs.

Especially the K151G look interesting a bit different cut then Mazzer normal but also then SSP pricing