Turin DF83 - Page 3

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Makanmata

#21: Post by Makanmata »

I'm a bit confused about the Mazzer burrs that will be available for this machine. What I'd really like are a set of the new (2022) Super Jolly burrs which are said to be a marked improvement over the pre-2022 Super Jolly burrs. Will that design be made in 83mm?

I'm curious about the design choice of an 83mm against a 80mm? Why are there two sizes so close together and why would a manufacturer pick one over the other? Is there any sort of developing standard?

Suddenly after a drought were many of us were waiting to wait months for grinders at excessive prices, it seems as if we're entering a period when we'll all be spoiled for choice.

Jonk

#22: Post by Jonk »

It seems Mazzer's design goals for the new Super Jolly burrs was faster grinding - their current 83mm offerings already achieve that. I prefer the flavor from the traditional 83mm burrs over the old Super Jolly burrs FWIW.. But SSP options are more interesting for me either way.

As was mentioned in this thread already, the "80mm" burrs are actually larger than the "83mm" burrs, when you account for the inner diameter as well. Both sizes have been in production for a long time.

Makanmata

#23: Post by Makanmata replying to Jonk »

I have no firsthand knowledge, but Mazzer insists that the new Super Jolly burrs produce a noticeably different taste than the old burrs. It's not just a speed thing according to Mazzer.

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EvanOz85

#24: Post by EvanOz85 »

Should have a DF83 in hand with both the SSP Red Speed and stock Italmill burrs by the end of the year.

JohnStuartP

#25: Post by JohnStuartP »

I've been using the df83 for a bit now and put in Ceado's 83mm opal burrs that are made for single dosing. They aren't cheap, but so far the experience has been phenomenal.

buckersss
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#26: Post by buckersss »

Can you compare the opal burrs to anything?

I'm inclined to have my next pair of 83mm burrs be SSP casts, but am certainly curious to see how others stack up.

JohnStuartP

#27: Post by JohnStuartP »

I have not done extensive comparing as I didn't use the stock for very long, but I still get great body and viscosity but have a cleaner tasting shot if that makes sense. I really like the change.

LindoPhotography

#28: Post by LindoPhotography »

DF64 SSP MP is a very nice combo for quality light roasts either for espresso or pour over (coarser brewing), I think they're my fav. burrs for highlighting specific flavour notes.

DF64's stock burrs are kind of similar (but a few notches down in clarity and not so great for coarser brewing), but pretty high clarity and not very much body, however the DF83 stock burrs seem a bit different, at least before seasoning, they're more traditional style, good body and decent clarity too, normally it wouldn't be what I'm looking for but I have really been enjoying how nice smooth and balanced it makes espresso AND coarser brews as well. My theory is the larger burrs tend to be more forgiving, easier to dial in, and generally smoother, less bitterness or unpleasant acidity. DF83 burrs might start getting higher clarity as they're getting seasoned though, a few shots surprised me, so I need to do more testing :)

I think DF83 build is better than the DF64 and they seemed to learn some lessons from DF64s weaknesses, the declumper and exit chute on mine seems very well behaved with less retention. DF64 v4 isn't too bad either though (similar, but different declumper on that one now).
DF83 is just a little slightly louder or higher pitch maybe (with stock burrs) than the DF64, 64mm SSP MP burrs are also higher pitched I found. But DF83 is MUCH faster to grind. And if you want more flavour clarity, there are SSP 83mm espresso burrs (which I am tempted to get). They're more pricey than the 64mm SSP burr options though!

I don't think Variable RPM is really a necessity, but it is nice to have. You do get a little more flavour clarity and less body generally on lower RPM and higher RPM you get more body, less flavour clarity, also less retention (auto ramp feature on the Orbit or Option-o Lagom P100 would be nice, but you can manually ramp up on the P64, which isn't always necessary anyway). So variable RPM is nice to play with because it gives you a bit of versatility with the same burr set.

Other Variable RPM 64mm Burr grinder option that is slightly cheaper than the P64, is the Acaia Orbit, it doesn't have quite the low end RPM range the P64 does (slightly lighter weight and lower power motor on it than in the P64 as well) but it has some interesting more advanced tech, especially if you already have a Acaia Lunar scale to pair it with.

The Zerno's promising feature which may or may not make a difference is the auger system, which may also work as a pre-breaker but not sure. One source of grind inconsistency is the weight and feed rate of coffee, with an auger feed system, it kinda takes the weight and feed rate out of the equation so it's all grinding at a similar rate from the start of your 18g dose to the end of it. Not sure how much of an effect that really has on coffee quality whether it's negligible, or really makes a noticeable improvement though.


p4lxrich wrote:so i'm really intrigue by this df83. i have the df64 w/ssp mp burrs and i do like it. but i'm kind'a getting tired of all the stuff i need to do to it to make it so that i love it. mainly the exit chute and cleaning. the df83 seems better internally. but no reviews yet or in hand. also not sure how loud the noise is. i wanted the p64 as everyone seems to be happy with it but of course can't even get it here in the usa (very difficult). then i was thinking about the zerno z1 if that is good out of the box. but no variable rpm either.

my thoughts are:
- i really want a variable rpm. should i just wait until p64 is readily or more readily available. does this really matter?
- is 83mm really better or noticeable. i'm actually just thinking about it since the internals seem better. but i dont' want this to be another df64 that i keep doing stuff too. kind'a getting tired of modifying stuff.

braxtonjens

#29: Post by braxtonjens »

I have a set of 151G burrs.
I plan to get them in a Major and try them on espresso. Probably fast shots due to the outfall.
But they are pretty nice for filter, but it's been a bit since I've brewed with them, so that's from memory.

But these burrs are basically unicorns. No body has them, maybe LM USA does.

I can upload photos if it would be useful to the thread.
“Coffee is always a good idea”
LMWDP #617

iyayy

#30: Post by iyayy »

LindoPhotography wrote: DF64's stock burrs are kind of similar (but a few notches down in clarity and not so great for coarser brewing), but pretty high clarity and not very much body, however the DF83 stock burrs seem a bit different, at least before seasoning, they're more traditional style, good body and decent clarity too, normally it wouldn't be what I'm looking for but I have really been enjoying how nice smooth and balanced it makes espresso AND coarser brews as well. My theory is the larger burrs tend to be more forgiving, easier to dial in, and generally smoother, less bitterness or unpleasant acidity. DF83 burrs might start getting higher clarity as they're getting seasoned though, a few shots surprised me, so I need to do more testing :)
image
i am stuck with ssp mp because it doesnt turn gritty when intentionally exceeding ratio and extraction, and this shows as extra liquid smoothness in the cup when brewed correctly. some may like that roughness and calls it texture. i dont like it, and i found my 1zk, arco italmill, timemore c2, df64 stock exhibits these characters to some or more degree. totally none on ssp mp and cast.. they just turn tasteless or bitter, but not gritty.

another is because i find only MP is able to highlight acids as taste, not just general plum/sour, so theres more variance of lemon, berry, lime, zest, etc. cast and others didnt really do this, but does have more juicy feel or with cast,more velvet and a bit more lingering aftertaste. for now i accept the mp limits, but looking at options. i have tasted some quite obvious extra brew nuances from ek43 despite using same beans, but prefer not to go there.

in your experience, does the df83 turns gritty? (easier to notice if u overextract brew or shots)
will it display variances in acids taste instead of just plum sourness?

thanks.