ltanzil wrote:I found this on youtube

video

apparently the DF64 maker made the big burr version of DF64 83mm

anybody has experience with this new grinder.

is it worthwhile to upgrade from 64mm to 83mm

fundamentally what is the flavor changes in using 83mm vs 64mm?

The 83mm is very limited in burr choices. I believe this comes with the classic Italmill 83mm burrs that delivers a very classic flat burr profile with focus on texture and blending of flavours and with a noticeable fines production. In many ways it's in the same category as 83mm Mazzer burrs, sure there minor differences between them, but really both are very traditional in their way of representing the coffee. There can be no doubt these are better at that profile then the Italmill 64mm and 64mm Super Jolly burrs. That said A 64mm grinder allows you to get some very different burrs that is far more suited to lighter roast with more clarity, flavour separation etc. like SSP MP and Cast, the latter round it a little more and give some more sweetness but still giver a cleaner profile then these 83mm.

So if your just into old fashioned comfort shots with darker roast then the 83mm is the better choice. If your into lighter roast the 64mm is really the only choice currently as there no good 83mm burr for that style currently, for that style roast there is really only 64mm, 80mm and 98mm burrs that really make sense, all other burr seizes can largely be ignored.

SSP makes a fantastic 83mm already, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the options at 83mm increase. Obviously it is speculative, but if these grinders are popular enough it could easily happen.

Last time I checked, 83mm flat selection looks like this:

Mazzer has the 151A/B/C and 251A espresso burrs which are the traditional geometry, and a couple of more brew focused 83mm flats - 151F and 151G - but they seem to have way greater outfall so might not be entirely fully espresso capable (i.e., turbos and other fast high flow shots probably, but doubtful they could do a slower pull).

SSP has two 83mm sets, one espresso focused, one multipurpose.

Ceado's 83s look an awful lot like the Italmills, but I might be seeing things.

ltanzil wrote: is it worthwhile to upgrade from 64mm to 83mm

fundamentally what is the flavor changes in using 83mm vs 64mm?

I think flavour is more tied to geometry/cutting pattern than it is to size. But bigger size does certainly provide a larger canvas for geometry variations tho.

There are more burrs out for the 64mm, many SSP cuts, the standard Mazzer, and Mazzer look a like cuts. All should be able to go in the DF64.

That said another member responded to me in another thread that there will be 83mm casts next year. I can't verify that myself.

The DF83 looks like it may be more powerful than the DF64 when normalizing for cutting surface area of the burrs. Whether that directly translates into more torque is hard to say.

dfuller wrote:Last time I checked, 83mm flat selection looks like this:

Mazzer has the 151A/B/C and 251A espresso burrs which are the traditional geometry, and a couple of more brew focused 83mm flats - 151F and 151G - but they seem to have way greater outfall so might not be entirely fully espresso capable (i.e., turbos and other fast high flow shots probably, but doubtful they could do a slower pull).

SSP has two 83mm sets, one espresso focused, one multipurpose.

Ceado's 83s look an awful lot like the Italmills, but I might be seeing things.

There are more 83mm burr patterns than you may initiatially think, your list proves it. Ty for that.

I have a ceado 83mm, the burrs are traditional in their cut, I'd expect little differences from the Mazzer espresso burrs (151b?). If there are different Ceado burrs, Id think the main difference is coating. When I take it apart next time I'll edit this post with the Ceado burr part no. for reference.

I have a pair of compak 83mm burrs on the way - part number k00812. They look different from other 83mm burrs I've seen. More unimodal. I was told they fit the Ceado. I imagine they'd fit the DF83 too.

when looking at pictures of the different SSP Burrs, is it just me or is the actual cutting area of those 83mm burrs not really larger then the 64mm ones?
The inner cut out seems way larger on those 83mm ones.

Are you talking about:

1) burr surface area ?

for a single Mazzer 64mm burr (as per cafeparts dimensions)
[ Pi x (OD/2) ^ 2 ] - [ Pi x (ID/2) ^ 2 ] = 3217 - 1075 = 2142mm2

For a single Mazzer 83mm burr (as per cafeparts dimensions)
5411 - 1886 = 3525mm2


2) distance through the burr ?

The outer diameter measurement subtract the inner diameter measurement.

64mm - 37mm = 27mm

83mm - 49mm = 34mm



I tend to compare surface area. I don't think the latter is fair. But I don't have any modelling knowledge to gauge which parts of a burr are in contact with a bean.

I imagine things like feed speed - which dictates
the torque distributed across beans in contact with the burrs - May matter even more than either above. Grinders like the bentwood, EK and Zerno, have augers for that reason

The problem in the selection is that one the cut is in most regard traditional focused and there really isn't much in regard of burrs tailored for light.

All mazzer are very traditional even the "brew" isn't the best for light, the same is true for Italmill, Ceado etc. even the Eureka 85mm (VA Mythos) lack clarity the same is true for almost all 75mm selection as well. The ssp 83 is okay in lack of better but it would not be my natural choice if there where actual something to choose among and the Compak 83 (PKE/PKF) is also fine but as often not interchangeable with other grinders so you can only really use them if you own said grinder (no holes)

For 75mm I have the atom pro, which is unimodal but you can't buy the burrs separately.

For 83mm, the compak pkf looks like a dream, but yea those blind burrs won't fit anything else that I know of. I'll let you know what I think of the k00812 compak burrs I have on the way.

Is anyone had experience with the k151i from Mazzer?

They clame that they can do both brewing and espresso.

I wanted to try the 151k/g/f, but I don't think that they can grind fine enough for espresso. Is anyone tried them out and think differently?

I tried or got coffee from pretty much all Mazzer burrs, O owned a major and we had a third wave cafe with ZM at some point (went broke) and I tried it in other places as well, let's just say I'm nor particularly impressed by Mazzer burrs, I don't think that's bound to change as long as they insist of only making cheap burrs. It lack clarity and flavour seperation like all mazzer burrs to different degree of cause but personally I've never been impressed by mazzer burrs these are way to traditional in their representation.