cnm.h wrote:2) Its lelit 58mm portafilter and Lelit 18g basket (I tried another no name 18g basket - no difference).
3, 4) I do all the measurements on an 0.1g accurate scale.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, are you saying that you measure 18 grams of output in the basket? If yes, have you tried 19 or even 20 grams in the 18g basket? Some baskets force you to updose.

Something else came to mind - when you put a blind basket into the portafilter, how high does the pressure get? 9bars, higher?

Just through process of elimination, I'm starting to wonder if there's something going on with the machine, but I have no experience with the Elizabeth and short of the most basic advice, couldn't diagnose whether the machine was causing you trouble.

bakafish wrote:So you still have half turn to dial, right?

Yes, I do. But it doesn't do much - the flow is decreases but still big and to much channels.

Auctor wrote:have you tried 19 or even 20 grams in the 18g basket?

I tried a few things today:

• 19g in the 18g basket touching shower, but the result is same. 20g don't fit. 17g - same result.

• 18-21g in the 20g basket a little different - the pressure a little higher (6 bar vs 4-5 in 18g basket).

Auctor wrote:when you put a blind basket into the portafilter, how high does the pressure get?

That's exactly 9 bar. When I make shots with my old grinder its like an 8.5 bar.

Since the problem appears, do had to increase or decrease the grinding time with a fixed weight dose as you was using before?

When you took it back to the store, did you prep the basket for their machine or did they?

If they did, maybe they compressed the puck as much as possible, where you are lightly tamping.

I'd say your puck prep is messed up, but if you are good with your old grinder, that seems unlikely.

I gotta say, I'm a bit stumped here. We ticked off many of the relevant boxes:

1) Grinder doesn't grind fine enough - disproven because the store was able to produce a high quality shot from the same grinder
2) basket is too big
3) not measuring grinder output (eg retention or user error)
4) stale coffee
5) machine can't produce a good shot - disproven since your old grinder seems to have done just fine
6) basket is broken - seemingly disproven since you can pull good shots with old grinder

My final thought is to take both the machine and the grinder into the store to replicate your problem. It's a lot easier to troubleshoot in person with a qualified pro than via asynchronous online chat.

SCespresso wrote:If they did, maybe they compressed the puck as much as possible, where you are lightly tamping.

I tried it myself with their basket and it worked.

Auctor wrote:My final thought is to take both the machine and the grinder into the store

This is difficult to do, and the seller is not interested in it.

Another thing I noticed: the grinding time with Specialita is longer than on most videos about it. That's 18g in 17 sec (my case) vs 13-14 sec on videos. It should not be very different with the same (+-) settings...

cnm.h wrote:I tried it myself with their basket and it worked.

This is difficult to do, and the seller is not interested in it.

Another thing I noticed: the grinding time with Specialita is longer than on most videos about it. That's 18g in 17 sec (my case) vs 13-14 sec on videos. It should not be very different with the same (+-) settings...

Given the same beans weight, grinding finer will increase the grinding time, as well grinding coarser will reduce the grinding time. So even small change of the grinds knob ( Specialita' is very sensible) could easily modify your grinding time, unless there is an occlusion in the ground chute, or the zig zag anti clumping is bent or else, just my thought.

Grinder works with another machine.
Machine works with another grinder.

That really only leaves grind setting and basket prep. That much channeling, you should grind coarser and really work on basket prep. Ideally try a acupuncture needle tool (DIY is fine). Keep going coarser until channeling stops even if that means sub 20 second shots, then you'll know where you stand and can work you're way back up.

I've been through similar issues. Switched from Niche to Atom 75. When your prep falls apart and/or you grind too fine with the flat burrs the pour may not slow down or choke the machine like you're used to with the conical. The shot may just totally fall apart into a channeling mess. WDT and keep going coarser and coarser and see what happens.

cnm.h wrote:Hi everyone.
I have two grinders: old Nemox Lux with the stepless adjustment mod and new Specalita. I make shots on Lelit Elizabeth.
After spending a few pounds of beans I couldn't dial in my Specialita - even on a turk range the flow is too big, many channels etc...

I start thinking it was grinder, and go back to store, but they made a perfect shot. When I got home with their settings and beans I got this:
video

And again the adjustment did not much.

I have no problems with the tamping using the paperclip and distribution tool. And I have no idea what could be wrong.

What I usually get with Nemox:
video

I know this is a bit of a bandaid solution but you could try and add a paper filter (like from the aeropress) to the bottom of the pf basket, add the grinds and do your puck prep/tamp then add another paper filter to the top. The theory is the bottom paper will prevent the pf basket holes from getting clogged which results in increased channels and the top one prevents puck erosion which also prevents channels. It's used as a technique to increase extraction and go finer but it also can "fix" shots which is why I call it a bandaid solution. It might be worth trying it out at least to see how the shot differs even if you don't plan on adding it to your routine. It may show that you need better puck prep and would may want to invest in a better WDT tool.

DamianWarS wrote:I know this is a bit of a bandaid solution but you could try and add a paper filter

I tried it today. Unfortunately it didn't help - still near 100g per 20 sec. But visually the flow has become a little smoother.

zfeldman wrote:Ideally try a acupuncture needle tool (DIY is fine)

I use a paperclip. This is not like the usual channels. I guess the water is pushes the tablet up and passes under it, or something like that.

Giampiero wrote:Given the same beans weight, grinding finer will increase the grinding time

The time is slightly reduced, but it's not much to get 13-14 seconds.

Is there Specialita owners? How many turns from true zero do you make?