Top 5 Grinders for Light Roast Espresso Application - Page 8

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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Denis

Postby Denis » Feb 10, 2019, 1:04 pm

I have to agree with you on this one. Some people drink smoked milk from childhoof, so they only like that taste, if the milk is normal and doesn't taste smoked from heating on a burner then they say it doesn't taste good. You don't have to imagine how smoked heated burnt milk tastes like, you can just make an analogy with something else.

Same goes for coffee you like under extracted 17-18% ey good for you. I have my own beliefs and won't change, just like you won't change yours. 25% ey is farm from battery acid taste. I know people who pull 17% on end grinders in 18sec, and they advertise that as being good.


My time is up, good luck.

lucasd

Postby lucasd » Feb 10, 2019, 1:38 pm

Nick Name wrote:Funny thing, I know a few top chefs. Not a single one of them uses gadgets to measure the taste of the food they make in their Michelin-starred restaurants. They relay on their taste. I personally see that us coffee-afficionados are still taking our first baby-steps. The science behind the best possible coffee still remains a mystery to be solved, IMHO.


I guess you don't know one of the greatest Heston Blumenthal.

And BTW if you can find difference using TDS (objective) the point is already proven there is a difference. In such case subjective panel may show that on average people cannot see difference, but does not exclude possibility that few does.
But going by that logic on average people don't like ligh roasts, so why you drink them ;)

bakafish

Postby bakafish » Feb 10, 2019, 10:54 pm

ds wrote:I think its a pipe dream... Also, I have not seen any blind taste studies that show that actually high extraction yields are tasting better. In my mind its all about balance and not so much about EY. Which is why people are pulling 3:1 ratios, they are trying to balance out that battery acid extraction to make it palatable.

I think the problem is: some people believe the flats can do 25-26% EY and conicals can only reach 20% for light roasts. The EY difference is huge so you should be able to tell the difference by taste. I don't have a SSP flat burr grinder and don't know if it is true that the EY of a light roast espresso can be so high, but it is interesting to see how high it can be.

In my experiences of my big conicals, the Slayer style shot, 30 sec slow ramp up to 4 bar and then 30 sec for 9 bar, can raise the EY by 0.5-1% at the brew ratio 1:2. It tastes good and balanced, not acid and astringent, so I don't think only SSP flat burr grinders are capable of pulling light roast espresso, and the very high EY is not necessary either. I don't like brew ratio 1:3 because it's often watery and less mouth feel for light roasts.

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Feb 10, 2019, 11:57 pm

I think even among flat burr grinders, the only claims are for a few, specific grinders, in particular EK43 with particular burr sets and having been carefully setup, are capable of such very high extraction yields without inducing off flavors.

EY, TDS and discussion are a completely different thread, one that seems to invariably get shutdown on H-B. :roll:

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Radio.YYZ

Postby Radio.YYZ » Feb 11, 2019, 12:34 am

So much talk about doing an actual blind test, when is that test happening and when will the data be presented? Raw and tabulated?
Good Coffee: Technique/Knowledge > Grinder > Beans > Water > Machine

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Denis

Postby Denis » Feb 11, 2019, 1:57 am

The shots are not watery, only if you under extract. The talking about TDS has its place here because it's an objective form to test grinders. If I would tell you about my taste experience you would not believe me, or you might not like what I like. More than that as you can see I don't make recommendation about best flat grinder, or to name one that is the best.


bakafish

Postby bakafish » Feb 11, 2019, 2:22 am

Denis wrote:The shots are not watery, only if you under extract.

Maybe and maybe not. As the EY is 26% and brew ratio 1:3, the TDS is only 8.67%, but I love brew ratio 1:2 which TDS is at least 10%. It's just personal preference.

catalinH

Postby catalinH » replying to bakafish » Feb 11, 2019, 12:05 pm

What is there to love about 1:2 ratio?
A light roasted coffee is usually less soluble than a dark one so more time and water is needed to extract as much as it has to offer.
With light roasted coffees I prefer log ratios(somewhere in between 1:2.5-1:3) and EY around 25% on my SSP Red Speed EK.When i pull 1:2 ratios usually I extract around 22,5-23%,yes the TDS is around 10 but still under extracted tastes to me.

On my Robur on the other hand I pull shots somewhere around 1:1.8-1:2 ratio and the EY 19.5-20.5% and I use it on coffees that are sweet,nutty and chocolaty because I find those to taste boring on EK, the zing(acidity) that my low extracting Robur brings seems to be exactly what those coffees are missing.When trying to under extract on EK I am not pleased with the result.You may call me crazy but a 21,5% from light roast to me it tastes under extracted on EK.

bakafish

Postby bakafish » Feb 11, 2019, 1:20 pm

catalinH wrote:What is there to love about 1:2 ratio?
A light roasted coffee is usually less soluble than a dark one so more time and water is needed to extract as much as it has to offer.
With light roasted coffees I prefer log ratios(somewhere in between 1:2.5-1:3) and EY around 25% on my SSP Red Speed EK.When i pull 1:2 ratios usually I extract around 22,5-23%,yes the TDS is around 10 but still under extracted tastes to me.

Maybe it is because my big conicals produce more fines than SSP flat burr grinders do and less boulders than Robur does, so more sweetness are extracted. I don't feel they are under extracted as I use Slayer style extraction for light roasts. The other reason, maybe it is because I don't have the experience of tasting 25% EY espresso. :D
I have a custom grinder with Mazzer 186C burr set and I replaced the 186C with the Gorilla Gear RoBlack. The Mazzer 186C produces much more boulders.

Nick Name

Postby Nick Name » Feb 11, 2019, 1:34 pm

lucasd wrote:I guess you don't know one of the greatest Heston Blumenthal.


No, not personally. :wink: