Top 5 Grinders for Light Roast Espresso Application - Page 6

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
guydebord

Postby guydebord » Feb 09, 2019, 12:38 pm

Aguirre wrote:I am right now drinking a shot just like that.

I don't have a tonino but this is definitely on the lighter edge of things. Cinnamon light.

The coffee is SM's La Tacita Floral Gesha blend. 9 minutes total roast time, dropped before the end of 1st crack.

I did a blooming espresso shot, quick 5s pre infusion, then 25s of blooming, and another 50s at full 9-bar. 19g in, 40g out.

The flow rate was uniform throughout the shot, and the end result is really good. Very sweet, floral, no bitterness or astringency. Really pleasing.

I wish I could share this internet-impossible shot with my fellow HB friends :wink:


Its when we find those moments of the impossible that make this hobby endless.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

erik82

Postby erik82 » Feb 09, 2019, 1:15 pm

But the big question isn't if it's impossible but if it could have been much better (case of lack of reference). I could also pull great shots with light roasts with my perfectly aligned HG-1 but with my EG-1 it's a completely different ballgame.
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RyanP

Postby RyanP » Feb 09, 2019, 1:27 pm

Agreed. Speaking in hyperbole on either end of the discussion isn't really helpful. There may be a couple people, but most of us aren't saying it's impossible to use nordic roasts and pull a good or long shot with a conical. I can and have pulled long low flow shots using nordic roasts and my mahlgut grist, but I agree with Erik, that I prefer what I get from the big flats. Maybe it's all in my head and only comes down to my expectations, but I waste a lot less coffee trying to get my light roast espressos right since switching to flat grinders. But, I can pull out the Mahlgut and try to set up some sbs blind tastings.

Revrev102

Postby Revrev102 » Feb 09, 2019, 2:23 pm

In regards to Monolith Flat Max vs EG-1 v2

can anyone comment as far as the flat max being the definite winner besides the fact of the larger burrs?

Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » Feb 09, 2019, 2:28 pm

erik82 wrote:But the big question isn't if it's impossible but if it could have been much better (case of lack of reference). I could also pull great shots with light roasts with my perfectly aligned HG-1 but with my EG-1 it's a completely different ballgame.


Well, there are some folks here claiming it's impossible.

Anyway, although I've proved many times (at least to myself) that a big and well aligned conical is totally capable of producing delicious espresso with Nordic roasts, I'm also paying to see how much more delicious it will be with a big flat. That's why I bought the EG-1 and that's why I'll try to get a Max too. The winner is a keeper.

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Chert

Postby Chert » replying to Aguirre » Feb 09, 2019, 2:53 pm

By the time you are doing your tasting, I would like to have a "Nordic roast" that fits the bill. What I think is a light roast and makes great coffee with my setup, may not be what all this back and forth is about.

For my roasting effort, is this a good description of what you are roasting for delicious espresso? ie "I have been enjoying impossible shots from light roasts as well (yes, LIGHT roasts. like 11-13% development time, dropped right in the middle of 1st crack)." or to late first crack, as you describe SM la Florita gesha blend? I have a stash of a good Kenyan, maybe I'll try two profiles, one of each.

Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » replying to Chert » Feb 09, 2019, 3:16 pm

Hey sir. Yes, this is a good description. I'm recently dropping between 45s and 1m:15s into first crack, depending on the coffee. Weight loss between 11% and 12%

A good washed Kenyan should fit like a glove. Charge high, soak it quite a bit and try to extend dry phase to around 5:30

erik82

Postby erik82 » Feb 09, 2019, 5:23 pm

Aguirre wrote:Well, there are some folks here claiming it's impossible.

Anyway, although I've proved many times (at least to myself) that a big and well aligned conical is totally capable of producing delicious espresso with Nordic roasts, I'm also paying to see how much more delicious it will be with a big flat. That's why I bought the EG-1 and that's why I'll try to get a Max too. The winner is a keeper.


For me it all depends on the roasting style. I've had a good amount of coffee that would've probably tasted better from a conical grinder. It's best to have both but that's not going to be allowed by the wife :mrgreen: . In the end I enjoyed the roasts which work best on flat burrs the most so that makes for an easy choice. And I do love the ability to do great pourover, especially with the SSP burrs. Otherwise I would have had a small handgrinder for pourover but this is a better choice for me.

malling

Postby malling » Feb 09, 2019, 7:53 pm

nuketopia wrote:Nope, not what I said at all. Reading is fundamental, so go re-read my words that you quoted.

I will put a $1000 donation to Shriner's Children Hospital that no double blind test will indicate that burr type can be statistically positively identified by tasting alone.


That really depends on the tasters ability, and also what parameters that should be identical.

For example you could easily decide for parameters that are identical but favours the flat, meaning you'll get 25-26% ext. with the flat but the outcome would be less desirable for the Conical as it would not be able to extract that high, instead it would end up in the reign below those numbers, I can guarantee a lot of people with experience would be able to detect that!

you could also decide to aim for an identical ext. but what would the point be for such an experiment, what would you gain, as flats shine at an extraction much higher than conicals, this is especially true with light roast coffee that requires a high extraction to actually taste good, meaning you'll end up with a result that doesn't showcase the flats nor the coffees potential if you just aim for identical extraction that is low enough for the conical to achieve.

I just don't see much point in your suggestion, I tried it, either the conical were totally blown out of the water as the parameters favored the flat or you got to boring coffees, as the coffee were not extracted high enough.

Again allot of tasters testing the same coffee from two grinders doesn't really make any sense. Tasting abilities will never be identical, we can and we will never be able to detect the same thing, taste dos simply not work that way, for example individuals can detect different bitter compounds from one person to the other, why we react differently when we taste the same food, for some people grapes is so bitter that they are unable to eat them for other the same grape is sweet and acidic, said in another word you'll gain nothing from other people's experience as your tasting ability is not identical.

So while you might not be able to, others might, this is also the reason why some like darker roast while others enjoy lighter roast.

Why water should be designed at your home to suit your preferences, for example I prefer it to showcase more acidity as Acidity dos not blind my ability to taste, bitterness however dos blind me and I would not detect anything else!

Disclaimer: the post of my behalf dos not include the added benefit pressure/flow profiling might have on a concial grinders performence, as I have only testet grinders on normal machines (with and without PI) and in cupping sessions. However I have experienced better performence with mentioned grinder on that specific type of machine.

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Feb 10, 2019, 2:42 am

malling wrote:

...So while you might not be able to, others might, ...


Again, this is the basis for double-blind testing. To eliminate biases and statistical variances. The same approach is used in color sciences, because of the variable of perception vs. measurement.

Holding all parameters but the burr type the same, we can test whether the burr type can be identified.

The panels have to include variable assortments to include sets containing all one type or the other, as well as mixed lots.

My hypothesis is that is impossible, and at most, we may see some very experienced tasters able to separate between two grinders. That's my hypothesis.

If we get into all sorts of other variables, then we're no longer identifying burr types, we're identifying entire preparation chains.

No one has yet indicated a coffee which can only be prepared properly as espresso using a flat burrs grinder.
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