Tiny motors on new grinders? - Page 3

#21: Post by **zan** » July 17th, 2021, 2:46 pm

Jeff wrote: The key is intelligent design and appropriate sourcing and QC.

I prefer Quality Control in capital letters and then tolerances, materials and at last design.

Cremina is a mere copy of the laPavoni design, from top to bottom and from right to left, and only with a new dress,
but the final product has very little in common, although they both make very good espresso.

#22: Post by **drgary** » July 17th, 2021, 3:53 pm

Off topic, but in 1967 Olympia Express took the best aspects of the La Pavoni home lever and redesigned it. OE added a pressurestat before LP did. Their group anticipates the LP 2nd gen so it is more easily serviced. It is water heated for more stable temperature. The boiler is larger for more shot capacity. The drip tray is deeper and doesn't degrade or rust. It is less tippy, and the case enclosure reduces burn risk. Add build quality to all of that.

OK, back on topic.

#23: Post by **txxt** » July 17th, 2021, 6:01 pm

Almico wrote:Have you spent much time making espresso with a Ditting lab grinder?

lol I couldn't help but chuckle to myself as I read this comment.

It's pretty obvious to me now owning both what the true difference is between the two on a workflow level. It's really not even close. A few others as well.

#24: Post by **EddyQ** » July 17th, 2021, 11:46 pm

Laura wrote:Why do people pay for machines like the eg1 or monolith grinders when they have such tiny motors?

It's just money.

#25: Post by **maxmaut** » July 19th, 2021, 11:24 am

txxt wrote:lol I couldn't help but chuckle to myself as I read this comment.

It's pretty obvious to me now owning both what the true difference is between the two on a workflow level. It's really not even close. A few others as well.

What's wrong with brewing espresso with LS? About to get the 807LS, is it about not being able to grind fine enough for SOE?

July 19th, 2021, 1:12 pm

I can't speak to the 807. It has nothing to do w SOE right now as I've been able to grind fine enough so far for complete choking a Linea mini on Yemen, Ethio and Mexican beans.

The K804 is very messy as far as dosing straight into a porta filter, and the knocker sucks for getting all the grinds into one or a cup. Grounds go all over. But the taste is excellent.

The EG1 is painless to use as far as workflow.

October 16th, 2021, 2:03 am

I've never noticed a 160w Baratza Vario motor struggling to grind coffee because it lacked power, even with light roasts grinding super finely.
I always thought it was weird when someone criticized the Niche Zero or a New Eureka Grinder that 'only' had 320w or something like that,
I think the manufacturers know how much power is needed to move burrs and crush coffee.

I'm not sure why commercial grinders have over rated 800w motors or something similar. I think it's more a marketing thing.
I'd rather focus on how the grinder works, grind quality and related features like size and quality of burrs, how easy it is to use, or how low the retention is etc. stuff that matters.

Also don't want to worry if it's plugged in beside an 1600w espresso machine if it's going to trip the circuit breaker.

#28: Post by **erik82** » October 16th, 2021, 4:06 am

You're completely ignoring the reason why big commercial grinders exist and try to translate that to home use for which they aren't made. Try grinding 10kg of coffee an hour for 350 days a year with your Vario and you'll need 4 new motors every hour and 3 complete new grinders every day. That's why big commercial grinders have big motors and are made to be bomber.

And they need speed or the line of people waiting for coffee will be a mile long one hour after opening a cafe and you'll lose all of your customers because you're so sloooooowwww.

And commercial grinders don't need to be small, are easy to use as you put in the portafilter and 3s later it's done. Retention also isn't an issue if you're grinding a double every 30s. A cafe owner will call your Vario a worthless piece of sh*t that is totally useless for anything coffee related as it continiously breaks down.

#29: Post by **heytchap** » October 16th, 2021, 4:16 am

I think another missed thing here is that these single dose, $3000 "weak" grinders are basically all bespoke, boutique items with low economies of scale paired with high materials and R&D costs which drive prices. Espresso as a thing isn't cheap to begin with and prices are further driven by the small nature of these producers.

Ditting grinders are basically bent sheet metal made to seemingly minimal standards and designed to work in a commercial setting; further, the two outcomes -bespoke vs commercial- are worlds apart with entirely different needs and focuses.

#30: Post by **Quester** » October 16th, 2021, 9:29 am

erik82 wrote:And commercial grinders don't need to be small, are easy to use as you put in the portafilter and 3s later it's done.

Exactly. So, instead of thinking about watts, it helps to think about watt hours. My MAX with SLM burrs can take upwards of a minute to grind 20 grams. The Eureka Olympus 75E High Speed does the same amount of work in a few seconds.