aldarund wrote:Big overprice. Its 634usd in china

You are correct, it's posted on alibaba but not yet in Aliexpress. With an order of 19 units the price drops to $450 usd.

There might be differences on the Chinese version and western version. If not then it won't be the first time prices are higher here, again increasing cost due to higher wages, taxation, price differences in distribution, more middlemen and different market works different to one another, disposable income etc.

One thing for sure a Chinese made product will never cost the same here as in China.

Based on this review, the Sculptor 078 is in a class by itself:



Excerpt:

The closes thing taste wise are Mahlkonig pre 2015 burrs but this is a bit better. The brews are really clean with no biterness, astringency or muddy flavors even at 25% + ey. It highlights a nice vibrant acidity that is not present in burrs like handgrinders (c40/KINU) or in grinders like ode V1/V2. That type of acidity is present in SSP burrs but in my opinion the timemore is way more cleaner and juicier.

malling wrote:There might be differences on the Chinese version and western version. If not then it won't be the first time prices are higher here, again increasing cost due to higher wages, taxation, price differences in distribution, more middlemen and different market works different to one another, disposable income etc.

One thing for sure a Chinese made product will never cost the same here as in China.

It should be more or less same, not 2x difference. For example sigma coffee have preorder for 560eur or so

The only way you can get equally priced items is if the manufacturer/company accepts lower profits on a certain market. In Europe there so many things that add expenses for companies as I already mentioned. When I lived in Asia it was quite normal the same product as found in my home land costed notably less, when not the case you knew full well they where just flaying their customers.

Either you overcharge the other markets to make price equal to Europe or they differentiate prices to reflect local conditions.

As most countries dos not have a strictly regulated market as Europe, they aren't forced to accept two year warranty they don't have anywhere near the wages and rent of europe and they certainly don't have up till 26% VAT. In Asia the corresponding to that is 5-10% the only region we find high VAT/sales tax is South and middle America where couple of consumers get equal to euope.

I\'m looking at grind distrbution and it says 20.5% below 400nm. Isnt it quite a lot ?


For example other grinders

malling wrote:The only way you can get equally priced items is if the manufacturer/company accepts lower profits on a certain market. In Europe there so many things that add expenses for companies as I already mentioned. When I lived in Asia it was quite normal the same product as found in my home land costed notably less, when not the case you knew full well they where just flaying their customers.

There probably quite large margins on such items as grinders so the total price more about to be competitive with others on market, rather than how much to overcharge. For example df64, df83, lagom etc cost more or less same in china as in europe.

DF64

Hi, I am the owner for the first Timemore Sculptor 78mm hybrid burr in Europe since November. I had under my belt many grinders (bentwood, ek43 pimped, ditting, xeoleo, some manuals, ultra levercraft 98mm, and some others).

The Timemore sculptor exceeded my expectations from day one, from packaging (3 boxes with foam, printed not ordinary brown cardboard) to accesories- silicone hand blower- brush- things that you dont get in some 2-3k grinders.

Taste wise the grinder is much different than anything else, and it's not close to ghost burrs grinders (owned the first Xeoleo since 2018 till 2021 aligned, changed burrs yada yada). Sculptor can grind much finer, close to moka pot or some presurized espresso. Dare I say it could grind on a flair 45 mm basket non-presurized.

The grind composition is really even and this shows in the cup, clean, sweet (but not heavy body) and crisp/juicy like eating fresh fruits, it makes your mouth water. On grinders like Ode or some grinders with SSP mp/brew burrs you start to get a glimpse in the aftertasting above a certain EY but here you dont get any of this even at 24%+ ey.

@aldarund you are looking at the distribution wrong, both ode and df64 have 16-18% above 1000 microns - those are boulders already. The grinders are not set near the same grind size composition.
you must check all the ranges of grind size to understand how a grinder work, as most of the time it's hard to have two grinders at the same grind composition.

A more accurate testing is this (but take it with a grain of salt as this is by sieving, and sieving is not something accurate, as a long one dimension particle (300 microns eg) can enter a 150 micron sieve opening by it's smaller sized dimension and then the results are wrong. In this case you could compare the results done in this testing but again, there is an error factor in there.

I find it hard to judge a grinder by some numbers on a paper, I judge it by my taste, been using it daily and I love it.

Here are some pictures from when I got the grinder, since there are not many picutres out there with it or the package, and you get all this for 600$:

aldarund wrote:I\'m looking at grind distrbution and it says 20.5% below 400nm. Isnt it quite a lot ?
image

For example other grinders
image

There probably quite large margins on such items as grinders so the total price more about to be competitive with others on market, rather than how much to overcharge. For example df64, df83, lagom etc cost more or less same in china as in europe.

DF64

I just looked into pricing Timemore charge less in Europe as well as the manufacturer behind the Pro Barista (name of Turin in Europe)
The Sculpture 078 is 899SGD or 627€ in Singapore that I believe has 7%. In England it's 595£ or 667€ with 20% VAT I believe that is approximately 555€ exclusive VAT in GB. Exclusive taxation in Singapore it's 585€. So Timemore also accepts less in europe or overcharging elsewhere by looking at current prices.

DenisSabou wrote:Hi, I am the owner for the first Timemore Sculptor 78mm hybrid burr in Europe since November. I had under my belt many grinders (bentwood, ek43 pimped, ditting, xeoleo, some manuals, ultra levercraft 98mm, and some others).

The Timemore sculptor exceeded my expectations from day one, from packaging (3 boxes with foam, printed not ordinary brown cardboard) to accesories- silicone hand blower- brush- things that you dont get in some 2-3k grinders.

Taste wise the grinder is much different than anything else, and it's not close to ghost burrs grinders (owned the first Xeoleo since 2018 till 2021 aligned, changed burrs yada yada). Sculptor can grind much finer, close to moka pot or some presurized espresso. Dare I say it could grind on a flair 45 mm basket non-presurized.

The grind composition is really even and this shows in the cup, clean, sweet (but not heavy body) and crisp/juicy like eating fresh fruits, it makes your mouth water. On grinders like Ode or some grinders with SSP mp/brew burrs you start to get a glimpse in the aftertasting above a certain EY but here you dont get any of this even at 24%+ ey.

@aldarund you are looking at the distribution wrong, both ode and df64 have 16-18% above 1000 microns - those are boulders already. The grinders are not set near the same grind size composition.
you must check all the ranges of grind size to understand how a grinder work, as most of the time it's hard to have two grinders at the same grind composition.

A more accurate testing is this (but take it with a grain of salt as this is by sieving, and sieving is not something accurate, as a long one dimension particle (300 microns eg) can enter a 150 micron sieve opening by it's smaller sized dimension and then the results are wrong. In this case you could compare the results done in this testing but again, there is an error factor in there.

I find it hard to judge a grinder by some numbers on a paper, I judge it by my taste, been using it daily and I love it.

image

We should definitely take these number with some serious precaution. The fact 500-1100um never exceeded 80% isn't particularly high even with my EK with stock burrs I could pass plus 80% 400-1100um, with hyper aligned SSP about 90% and no particles over 1100um or less then 1-2% in most cases.

This either has a noticeable fraction of under 500um or above 1200um and never seem to really get rid of the boulders.

Looking at particles data it looks fine, nothing out of the ordinary, I see nothing I can't easily get near at with my aligned Ode with SSP both MP and Cast that I can get over 80% 400-1100um.

Again I think this also demonstrates that particle distribution is not be all end all kinda things. Particle are not uniform these can be 200um in one side and 800um on another so why we should take this data with serious precaution.

For the price you get a rocket blower and catch cup, not exactly a gift shop. But I also didn't expect otherwise.

It's only really more expensive grinder you get water spray bottles, magnetic portafilter funnels, specialesed catch cups, WDT tool and better brushes.