SSP Lab Sweet 83mm - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
gobucks
Posts: 226
Joined: 2 years ago

#11: Post by gobucks »

Is it common for the chirp point to "move" after grinding some coffee through a new set of burrs? I did the burr zeroing process on my Niche Duo, the orientation I picked was 1 notch better than the middle orientation, and 2 notches better than the worst orientation. So anyway, I zeroed it out, ground a few shots through (first shot was a complete guess, but it came out near perfectly). This morning, for whatever reason, I checked for chirp at zero, and I heard nothing, -1 nothing, -2 nothing, I had to go to -3 to hear chirp. So I re-zeroed it at the new chirp point. Is this normal? Maybe a rough edge needed some grinding to level it out?

Also, I am getting quite a bit of retention with these burrs, with some visible grounds getting stuck on and around the carrier. Is this just a normal thing with unseasoned burrs?

thinkertinkering (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 months ago

#12: Post by thinkertinkering (original poster) replying to gobucks »


I've experienced the same as yours, with exceptions :
1. I'm using DF83
2. My new chirp point goes the opposite direction as compared to yours.

If you'd want read up on the bunch of condescending advice coming from the espresso-outlet Joe, here's



He insists that all users, like us mere mortals, are stupid and have been using this mythical grinding thing in the most absolutely wrongest way possible.

Always adjust grind size while keeping the burrs running yada yada yada...

Welp, who am I but just another dumb brainless user, followed that sage advice and what do you know..

Didn't help.

The thing is the zero point just keeps moving anyway, and even with the littlest amount of beans gone through (ie. Two beans. Two.)

I would guess his rationale, the odd unexpected chirp is contributed by some bean fragments having lodged in between the burrs.

I would think that's not the case as the moving chirp situation also happens at the very super coarse level.

I've opened up, cleaned up, repeated the grind again with another two beans. Yes the chirp point moved again. Yes, my marker pen test is a clean wipe (after shimming)

I am quite at lost too. I'm not sure if it is really due to new burrs yet to be seasoned well. My burrs are just going into 2kg so far.

gobucks
Posts: 226
Joined: 2 years ago

#13: Post by gobucks »

@thinkertinkering, that is interesting. Does your zero point keep moving in the same direction, or is it moving back and forth? I wonder if going for shipping/hyperalignment during the seasoning process is causing more problems. I bought some dry erase markers, but I think I'm going to hold off on going down that particular rabbit hole until my burrs have settled in.

Also, what are your thoughts on the taste? I'm definitely feeling an emphasis on milk chocolate and sweetness in the espresso range, really digging it so far. I haven't found the zone for v60 yet, but I did try one that took 5 mins (obv too long), and honestly it wasn't too bad, certainly much better than any pourover I achieved with the Niche Zero. Clearly it could be brighter, but it wasn't bitter and overextracted despite the long brew time. I'm curious how similar the results are, considering that the grinders run vastly different RPMs.

LObin
Posts: 1770
Joined: 7 years ago

#14: Post by LObin »

thinkertinkering wrote: I've experienced the same as yours, with exceptions :
1. I'm using DF83
2. My new chirp point goes the opposite direction as compared to yours.

If you'd want read up on the bunch of condescending advice coming from the espresso-outlet Joe, here's



He insists that all users, like us mere mortals, are stupid and have been using this mythical grinding thing in the most absolutely wrongest way possible.

Always adjust grind size while keeping the burrs running yada yada yada...

Welp, who am I but just another dumb brainless user, followed that sage advice and what do you know..

Didn't help.

The thing is the zero point just keeps moving anyway, and even with the littlest amount of beans gone through (ie. Two beans. Two.)

I would guess his rationale, the odd unexpected chirp is contributed by some bean fragments having lodged in between the burrs.

I would think that's not the case as the moving chirp situation also happens at the very super coarse level.

I've opened up, cleaned up, repeated the grind again with another two beans. Yes the chirp point moved again. Yes, my marker pen test is a clean wipe (after shimming)

I am quite at lost too. I'm not sure if it is really due to new burrs yet to be seasoned well. My burrs are just going into 2kg so far.

Zero point can only be set on a clean grind chamber. It might sound too simplistic of an explanation but just two beans can cause a small build-up on the burrs and create a new higher point on the burrs. Even at a corse grind setting, especially with a burr set like the SSP Cast that can have quite a bit of retention on the face of the burrs themselves.

In any case, the chirping noise on a "dirty" grind chamber doesn't necessarily indicate that the 0 point has moved.

This phenomenon (0 point seemingly shifting) seems to be amplified with larger flat burr grinders. Many new DF83 users have had the same impression and have asked that question on the FB group.

Unless your grinder was producing very inconsistent results, I wouldn't worry about it.

One thing I noticed with the wave spring is that, upon reassembly, it's better to fully compress it by tightening the adjustment collar all the way before going back to a coarser setting and then zero it out.

I've been quite tempted to get the Cast burrs for my DF83 but still holding off until there are more reviews out there.
Any other thoughts you can share on the cup profile?
What kind of coffee and ratio/recipes have you tried thus far with the 83LS?
Have you been able to compare results with a coffee you know well, with the stock Italmill's or another grinder/burr set?

Thanks for starting this thread btw!

Cheers!
LMWDP #592

gobucks
Posts: 226
Joined: 2 years ago

#15: Post by gobucks »

I've been using the cast burrs for about a week now, maybe put a pound or so of coffee through them (SSP recommends 3-5KG for seasoning so they are def not there yet). So far, I'm getting quite good results for espresso, when I get them dialed in correctly (around 6 notches above chirp on my Niche Duo for a 16g dose), I get nice chocolaty sweetness with some nuttiness. Honestly not that dissimilar from my Mazzer espresso burrs.

So far the performance for v60 has been a bit of a surprise. The burrs seem to be creating a lot of fines at coarser settings, so much so that in order to hit a 2:30 brew time using 20g in -> 300g out, I needed to brew at notch 60 (see 1st pic). By the end, there were some huge boulders on top. The brew was decent, but a little weak. So I tried again at 50, still awfully coarse but significantly fewer boulders, and it took about 3 mins, with a little stalling on the last 50g or so of water, and a slight mud ring (see pic 2). Brew was stronger, overall better, but I feel like if I go much finer it'll stall out completely. I'm hoping it's just because the burrs need more seasoning,



Jonk
Posts: 2113
Joined: 4 years ago

#16: Post by Jonk »

gobucks wrote:So far, I'm getting quite good results for espresso, when I get them dialed in correctly (around 6 notches above chirp on my Niche Duo for a 16g dose), I get nice chocolaty sweetness with some nuttiness. Honestly not that dissimilar from my Mazzer espresso burrs.
Is this with a darker roast? Based on my experience with the 64mm version, I'd expect a big difference vs. Mazzer burrs for light roasts. But at least with my v1, I need to stay at almost the same setting as with darker roasts to avoid grinding too fine and just accept a faster shot. Could be worth trying.

For the V60 on the other hand, I'd suggest to grind finer and change other parameters if you have to (like paper filter, pouring technique or just accept longer drawdown times :wink:).

thinkertinkering (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 months ago

#17: Post by thinkertinkering (original poster) »

gobucks wrote:@thinkertinkering, that is interesting. Does your zero point keep moving in the same direction, or is it moving back and forth?
Same direction
gobucks wrote: Also, what are your thoughts on the taste? I'm definitely feeling an emphasis on milk chocolate and sweetness in the espresso range, really digging it so far.
At the moment if i'm going for a bit coarser in the espresso range, i could taste sweetness which wasn't there before from the Eureka Mignon Manuale. However, for some other beans which require finer grinds, i get the sour end and bitter end within the same cup no matter what i do in terms of dose and temperature. I'm not sure if it's the nature of the beans though as both bags i'm having right now had fermentation applied within their processing.

thinkertinkering (original poster)
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 months ago

#18: Post by thinkertinkering (original poster) »

LObin wrote: Zero point can only be set on a clean grind chamber. It might sound too simplistic of an explanation but just two beans can cause a small build-up on the burrs and create a new higher point on the burrs. Even at a corse grind setting, especially with a burr set like the SSP Cast that can have quite a bit of retention on the face of the burrs themselves.

In any case, the chirping noise on a "dirty" grind chamber doesn't necessarily indicate that the 0 point has moved.

This phenomenon (0 point seemingly shifting) seems to be amplified with larger flat burr grinders. Many new DF83 users have had the same impression and have asked that question on the FB group.

Unless your grinder was producing very inconsistent results, I wouldn't worry about it.
Cheers!
Thanks for writing these thoughts, i've been thinking about these since your writing. Well, to also update my observation or what i've done since :
- i've stuck to the advice of changing grind size only when the motors are spinning the burrs ( well, good advice is still a good advice).
- when doing so, if it comes to a "pre-mature chirp" (usually when going towards finer direction), i moderately give the bellow a good whacking. How hard ? If i rate the strength of pushing the bellow for purpose of blowing out the grind residues as a gentle "1", and on the other hand if i rate a hard "5" as in a force strong enough to really damage something , the moderate whacking i applied to get rid of the pre-mature chirp would be between the strength of "2" and "3".

Et voila, it does get rid of the pre-mature chirp !

Now what has happened really in that process , i don't know . Did the whack help in pushing out a stray lodged piece of grind ? Or did the burr got out of fragile alignment for a bit and finally submitted to my moderate whacking to get back into groove. Anyone's guess .


LObin wrote: Any other thoughts you can share on the cup profile?
What kind of coffee and ratio/recipes have you tried thus far with the 83LS?
Have you been able to compare results with a coffee you know well, with the stock Italmill's or another grinder/burr set?

Thanks for starting this thread btw!

Cheers!
i had the same bag when i transitioned between the 50mm italmill in my previous (now sold) Eureka Mignon Manuale so i get to compare with the 83LS. Though at point of comparison the 83LS was hardly anywhere near what people would consider as properly seasoned.
My summary isn't really summarative at this point as i really want to reserve more findings until i'm sure i got these babies properly seasoned. Though if i may hazard a quick opinion that on coarser end of espresso range , aka closer to doing a Turbo shot , i am quite convinced that sweetness which wasn't there before from the 50mm italmill , did appear with the shot from 83LS.

Molina
Posts: 26
Joined: 3 months ago

#19: Post by Molina »

Will report back tomorrow. Seasoned 4kg of medium and dark roasted beans now and hopefully taste something nicer tomorrow morning :)


Molina
Posts: 26
Joined: 3 months ago

#20: Post by Molina »

More than 2 weeks in. Here's my experience.

When the stars align, the taste is superb. I mostly use light to medium-light roasts for espresso, cappuccinos chemex and v60 pour overs. No big issues with fines btw but I don't bellow if I grind for pour overs.

I get my beans from the same local roaster for years and was able to taste new flavours with my SSP LSs. 1 in particular suddenly had a much stronger boozy taste (in a good way even though it sounds strange, like irish coffee mixed with blueberries).

Overall my coffees have a more pronounced flavour that makes it easier for me to find the right word to compare it with. You could say that the primary, secondary and even tertiary flavours are easier to distinguish compared to the mixed flavours I had with my previous grinders.

However, I'm not happy with the consistency of the shots I'm pulling yet. So far I've probably ran 6-7 kg of beans through the DF83v2. I also did alignment tests on this grinder with the stock Mazzer burrs and SSPs and noticed the same unevenness on both. Quite sure my top burr carrier is a bit crooked and normally solved by aligning and placing shims under the burr. DF64 or 83 owners probably know that aligning these grinders is horrible. You can only place shims next to the screw holes since there's no surface on the remaining places in the carrier. I was able to place shims still if you cut them in the exact required sizes. Spent hours aligning the SSPs and this was the best I was able to get out of it. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I did notice that my chute was clogged a bit and after a good clean I'm not noticing any retention. Before I used to retain .1 -.3 but the last 3 shots were with 0 retention. I was also able to grind, much much, finer (going from 10.1 to 5). Very surprised by that. Maybe because I did a better job aligning this time? Anyways, my issue is that the second shots runs much 6-9 seconds faster that the first.

If someones interested I will post results in another week or 2.

Lastly, I did notice that the needles of my WDT tool didn't reach all the way to the bottom. I adjusted it today so it exactly matches the depth of my unifilter basket. I'm also RDTing much more after watching James' latest video. I'd say my puck prep is quite solid (RDT, WDT, EPF filter, puck screen and a good fitting pullman bigstep tamper).