SSP burr installation for EK43S inside/outside burr ? - Page 2

#11: Post by **rmongiovi** » September 28th, 2021, 8:10 pm

No. But then I haven't tried to answer a question and been accused of rumors and innuendo before either. So there's a first time for everything.

#12: Post by **ira** » September 29th, 2021, 2:13 am

I didn't accuse you of rumors and innuendo, I implied there are lots of unsubstantiated statements made about the importance of which burr rotates and I think there is no evidence to demonstrate that it matters. I ask this question in essentially every thread where it comes up and no one seems to have ever tried to see if it matters. I have an Apex and use both hands and grind in both directions and have never noticed any difference, but that's a ghost burr grinder. Until the question is answered, I will continue to pose the question. I posed it a number of times and no one has ever come up with any evidence it matters. I'm certain that clearly specifying it, it reduces confusion and support questions for the manufacturer. If you think it matters or you've seen a reputable review demonstrating a difference, I'm all ears. If you took it as personal I'm extremely sorry.

Ira

#13: Post by **Jake_G** » September 29th, 2021, 6:42 am

I've tried it and found that in the grinders that I've used, I can't measure or taste a difference.

I also have it on good information (quotes directly from Hansung at SSP) that much of their development process is randomly changing angles, offsets and depths and then trying them to see what happens. That said, there does seem to be a consistent recommendation (from SSP) that fewer flutes should rotate in horizontal applications and more flutes should rotate in vertical.

I have not heard a rational explanation for this recommendation, but it is what it is...

#14: Post by **rmongiovi** » September 29th, 2021, 1:56 pm

Rumors, innuendo, logic... call it what you will. Unless someone has the ability and desire to measure the torque required to turn the burrs in both configurations it seems to me you won't get an answer that satisfies you. Hence my suggestion to ask the man who designed the burrs to be different in the first place. I'm afraid it's the best I've got.

#15: Post by **ira** » September 29th, 2021, 4:50 pm

Torque is irrelevant, all that matters is taste and myself and a few others think it makes no difference which one turns or which one is on which side.

Ira

#16: Post by **Jake_G** » September 29th, 2021, 5:35 pm

I can measure the torque if that would be helpful...

Why they are different is easy. Two identical burrs have cutting paths that cross instantaneously. Pulling a flute out of one or the other burrs creates a zipper effect that drastically reduces the instantaneous cogging effect. 7 teeth hitting at the same time, 7 times per rotation vs 7 and 8 teeth hitting 56 times per rotation offers a substantial reduction in the amplitude with a substantial increase in frequency, but the work done is the same.

#17: Post by **rmongiovi** » September 29th, 2021, 8:06 pm

ira wrote:Torque is irrelevant, all that matters is taste and myself and a few others think it makes no difference which one turns or which one is on which side.

Ira

Perhaps the thing for you to do is to design your own burrs. Or not ask questions if you just want to denigrate the answer.

Here's my train of thought. The beans have to pass between the two burrs and rub against both sides. I'm not sure how the side which is rotating could make a difference in the quality of the coffee grounds. So the difference between "in side" and "out side" from the point of view of the EK43 is that the "in side" is static and the "out side" is rotated by the motor. So it seems to me that if the difference in the two burrs actually makes a difference then it must be a difference in how much torque is required to turn the burr. So when Denis from Kafatek said, "Number of crushers difference is to control the power that is used from the motor. Its why Hansung recommends 7 on spinning burr carrier. That has larger impact on power used as opposed to putting them on stationary side." it seemed like a reasonable explanation to me. In this case, "follow the manufacturer's instructions" seems painless enough that I don't really see the point in testing to see if it really makes a difference. While I do care enough to want to know that "in side" means stationary and "out side" means rotating I don't actually care enough to ask why. I'm OK with "just do it."

You say you don't care about torque, but if your grinder stalls while grinding lightly roasted coffee and its motor burns up you might discover a reason to care. Your assessment of "irrelevant" is only true if your grinder has enough of it.