80mm burrs experience (SSP, Ditting, EG1, Ultra, Uber...) - Page 21

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Mikk
Posts: 55
Joined: 3 years ago

#201: Post by Mikk »

malling wrote:I'm puzzled by your picture there been two 804 burrs the original had a flat back and a inner blackish cast material and one side had 4 for cast teeth in 10 prebreaker sections the other had 5 cast teeth in 9 sections.

The later version had a machine raised outer rim/edge like all modern burrs and a different cast material as is evident on the greyish colour

There been some changes on the cutting teeth themselves but otherwise the core design is very much the same with dissimilar burrs, an idea Hansung has passed on to LS 64 V3

What I don't understand is why you have two identical burrs? that I never seen before

The left hand/lower burr in my picture is a genuine Ditting Lab Sweet burr. The right hand/upper burr in my picture is the much older rough-cast Ditting 804 burr.


Mikk
Posts: 55
Joined: 3 years ago

#202: Post by Mikk »

I was trying to show that the SSP Lab Sweet burr is visibly more similar to the old 804 cast burr than it is to a current Ditting Lab Sweet burr.

The location of the cutting edges in relation to the lead-in depressions, the length of the cutting edges etc all differ quite a bit.



SSP 80mm lab sweet burr

malling
Posts: 2936
Joined: 13 years ago

#203: Post by malling replying to Mikk »

I think we talk past each other

I already kinda explained it, the original 804 burr used a different casting, what I gathered from some interviews from Mahlkonig/ditting is the casting material influences on the cup profile those I think it's obvious small changes would have to be made if you change casting material, they said so themselves they been experimenting with different casting composition. Also it's well established they made changes over the years on the cutting teeth on all burrs as I already mentioned, largely to meet and be able to easier use them for espresso.

You see the same on Ek burrs the original look different to the current because of the demand that was to have a larger range in espresso settings, this unfortunately had a less then ideal effect on the cup profile in both cases

Eiern
Posts: 628
Joined: 9 years ago

#204: Post by Eiern »

Yeah that was stupid, the tweaked EK coffee burrs didn't exactly end up that great for espresso either and they already had a turkish burr option so now they're just kind of master of none.

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EvanOz85
Posts: 718
Joined: 12 years ago

#205: Post by EvanOz85 »

Mikk wrote:I was trying to show that the SSP Lab Sweet burr is visibly more similar to the old 804 cast burr than it is to a current Ditting Lab Sweet burr.

The location of the cutting edges in relation to the lead-in depressions, the length of the cutting edges etc all differ quite a bit.

SSP 80mm lab sweet burr
image
Here's a comparison of my genuine 807 LS burrs vs SSP's blind version. As you can see, the finishing sections of the SSP version are drastically wider and longer than the Dittings.

malling
Posts: 2936
Joined: 13 years ago

#206: Post by malling »

Yes all 3 are different, all use different metallurgy as well and the cut is different on all, again the goal has been different on all of them, the original 804 was mainly just meant to do bulk grinding it was never truly designed to offer any sort of range for espresso as it was mainly used as a shop grinder just like the EK43 (don't believe the made up story of some coffee influencer it's not true), we had those several places where I lived even in super markets long before the revival of brewed coffee and light roast really took the world. The new one is certainly been altered from it and was largely brought back to live with the peak grinder 9 years ago and changed so it could better do espresso, I think they might have done some minor tweaks to the final cut over the span.

Hansung never really replicate he get inspired and then alter to what he deem an improvement usually meaning more clarity and better flavour separation, which fundamentally been the case on all the SSP LS I got around so far.

I personally think the original 804 was a tad better than the revised version also coined to Lab Sweet but you was like at near chirp with it to do espresso.

On top there a machined 804 burrs and the E80 burrs that is built on it as well. I think Hansung has a couple of burrs inspired by the 804 machined burrs as well.

So yeah the burrs are different but all are built on the 804 no matter if we speak Lab Sweet, E80 or SSP 64, 80, 83 & 98 versions. The Ditting 804 burrs was made for the coffee of its time that was fundamentally a medium roast filter coffee, so it's no surprise it works so well with that.

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Chert
Posts: 3537
Joined: 16 years ago

#207: Post by Chert »

I was planning to get a set of blind Ultra burrs, but a couple months back cancelled an order when the shipping seemed outrageous. I just ordered the burrs, filters and a weber basket with shipping $20. That's more like it! Burr exploration continues...
LMWDP #198

Mikk
Posts: 55
Joined: 3 years ago

#208: Post by Mikk »

Original super-dull 804 cast burr with SSP-sharpened/coated 804 cast burr.



Mikk
Posts: 55
Joined: 3 years ago

#209: Post by Mikk »

I've been comparing genuine 804/807 Ditting Lab Sweet to the SSP sharpened/Redspeed coated 804 cast burrs for the last 2 weeks. Burrs have been aligned.

Burrs are in Ditting 804 grinders, and so far have been used for espresso only. With burr touch point just below 1.0, the genuine LS burr needs to be set at 2.7 for medium espresso, and the SSP/cast burr set at 3.5 for a similar result.

Dial-in with SSP/cast burrs is much easier, and sweet-spot is wider too. They definitely give different results in the cup, however at this stage there's no 'better/worse', and my preference right now would be for the SSP/cast, but mainly for ease of use.

STG
Posts: 164
Joined: 5 years ago

#210: Post by STG »

Anyone have an opportunity to test SSP ultra vs actual Weber Ultras? Curious if there is a notable difference.