LObin wrote:I'm curious to know if you've tried more "classic espresso roasts" with the multipurpose.
I'm not talking about oily, french or Italian roasts but something closer to a medium, city or even full city roast.

The reasoning behind this is many people will pick a darker roast, often a blend, for their milk drinks while they prefer lighter roasted single origin coffees for straight espresso or allongé.

Basic recommendation in this scenario seems to be the SSP High Uniformity but with what users have reported as far has differences in the cup between the HU and the MP, it kinda feels like going for the best compromise instead of going for the best "tasting burr"...

My preference is also light roast and I prefer multipurpose but it's fine with medium stuff too. I don't drink much but I don't think there's anything wrong with the medium roast milk drinks it makes at least.

I have no idea as I haven't tried, I don't drink medium roast. BUT the High Uniformity burrs, to me with nordic filter roast, already taste stronger, with more generic espresso/coffee flavor, less clarity than Unimodals.

That's some of the descriptions I would apply to darker roasts as well, so I'm no sure I'd like even more soluble darker beans extracted high with that profile unless it was for milk drinks? But I have not tried what a Unimodal 1:2 shot taste like with medium roast, I do 1:3 mostly, some less if the beans don't handle it well (defects show up).

The High Uniformity burrs are decently clear as I can still pick out some of the beans character, it's not all just generic mud, a little better than the Mazzer burrs.

When I switched to SSP burrs I had to switch from using Tim Wendelboe espresso roast to his filter roast, they extract that well, and his espresso roast is probably lighter than most filter roasts.

I'm interested hearing how the Unimodal/Multi Purpose taste for those using darker roasts. I like the good flow from the Unimodals now that I'm used to it, High Uniformity you really feel the flow slowing down with a half mark finer on the grinder, and I could see it hindering extraction without preinfusion?

A few things I have to say about the SSP 64mm "original" (non-modified) brew burrs from the second batch (07/2020). I guess my post could also have its place in the lagom thread.

Brewing methods
I have ordered this unit for espresso convenience, being tired of hand grinding and trying miserably to dial in medium roasts as a beginner with a helor 101 with brew burrs. Filter being still important to me, I opted for the unimodal burrs. Time has changed and what I drink now is getting lighter and more expensive, my commentaries about taste could be biased through the improved quality of beans. If I describe something without saying it's a comparison with another grinder, it means it hasn't been compared and could also very well be how the beans behave or taste in the (porta)filter.
More on this in the taste section

Roasts
I've tried a bit of everything. I always change beans and roasters. These burrs do taste like they extract more, and while I did make some dark roast espresso with it (even 100% robusta just for fun), it doesn't make life easier and forces you to reduce the brew ratio. It surprisingly still allows crema to be there with the high flow, highly depending on beans of course. I would say that the beans I've used were mainly medium or light, with the occasional dark roast from a subscription. Currently exploring a little more on the nordic roast side, but not enough to give you a detailed opinion.

Ratios
2:1 to 2,5:1 is what I have used the most for my daily espresso. The beans who benefit from a shorter ratio may also work, it's a tad bit more difficult to be precise with it due to the fast flow.

Taste (espresso)
Review your expectations, these burrs show a high discrepancy between the aspect and the taste of the shot. I'm not trying not to be unfair, but sometimes it looks like an espresso diarrhoea and not like a nice "espresso p0rn" shot, but can still taste surprisingly good. Shots do have lots of clarity, I would say that body is often lacking, the part that I'm not sure about is if it they taste sweeter than other burrs. They do seem to blend acidity in a different, positive way. What I liked less, is that I believe that some beans do not benefit from these burrs, they will taste really strong (as in a very concentrated brewed coffee). "Bad" beans or not, sometimes there's a taste you'll not hide anywhere. I jokingly tried 3 shots of a few medium/dark beans side by side with my helor 101 before I sold it, and found that despite the workflow issues (read further for that) and difference of aesthetics, the shots were not that much different in terms of body, and I preferred the taste from the lagom which was much more balanced.

Taste (filter)
As for filter coffee, this has been my main use during the last months. After solving some issues due to V60 non original filters, I can say that the cup is very clear, and that especially for the beans during the last few weeks (Nicaragua los encuentros - catuai natural from Machhörndl in Germany for example) I've had an excellent quality, more that what I would expect from a good coffee shop. That said, I think that some beans fit the burrs more than others. While that could be a personal taste, I suspect that the clarity of the cup could even go as far as getting something "dull" and could explain why all my favourite cups were natural processed coffee. I've had my fair share of light (washed ?) roasted beans which have showed a clear but weak cup, which weirdly was associated with an astringent aftertaste which I could not get rid off.

Workflow issues (espresso)
Getting a good puck prep is a real PITA. I may lack skills and/or other WDT tools, but the sweet spot is small. I really cannot build up lots of pressure and do not understand how some users maintain a pressure from 6 bars or more throughout the shot. The maximum I can get with my robot is a quick peak at 6 bars (without preinfusion), with a very rapid decline in pressure, otherwise be ready for the spitting coffee vulcano. Being a tryhard and grinding close to zero for shots with preinfusion was a disaster - I much prefered setting the unit at 0,9-1,0 from zero and pull shots with as low as 2 bars pressure on the robot. Pressure buildup seems easier on my PV Lusso, but the channeling is hidden through the spouted portafilter, and while the results are good I still prefered my robot during the brief side by side comparison I did.

Workflow issues (filter)
None, just accept that it flows much faster that what you'd expect, and dial in by taste not by time.

Conclusion
While the SSP brew burrs are good and tought me a lot,

1) I am ready to sacrifice some extraction for an easier workflow for espresso, even if that means going back to "standard" methods like long preinfusion if needed for higher extraction etc... instead of constantly updosing to get a controllable flow rate

2) I wanted to see for myself if the filter quality difference is worth the price difference of the unit with a Comandante C40. I've seen diverging opinions, enough to believe that one is not always better than the other. I've ordered one which I received yesterday. If I can't reliably say that I prefer the Lagom SSP brew most of the time, I will use the C40 as my main filter grinder, then do some last comparisons between C40 & SSP brew for espresso before changing the burrs for SSP HU (and maybe selling the first set of burrs)

Hope that helps

SteveRhinehart wrote:Here are the unimodal vs multipurpose red speeds:
image
Left is MP, right is Uni. Note the small flat surfaces cut into the outer edge on the left, best seen below center in the photo.

image
Left is Uni, right is MP. The Uni has a more defined sawtooth edge.

image
Top is MP, bottom is Uni. In profile, the MP shows a more distinct flat outer edge. I'm not entirely sure if this is properly flat or just a much shallower sawtooth edge.

Extremely helpful. Thanks for this. The differences are subtle. Given your photos, I actually think I have the original unimodal and not the multi purpose. Can you tell from my photo above?

Lagom P64 with original brew burrs.
At least 10kg to break in.

Cupping 1:17 exactly 4 full numbers from first burr chirp (pretty much bang on the sticker.)

Brewing 1 cup V60 12.5g / 210g at 4.5 full numbers. One single pour no bloom 2:20 total.

For example currently brewing SEY SL28 Colombia which is super light, flirts with under developed but isn't at all. Cups are super sweet / full, strong aroma with plenty of flavour separation / clarity.

Be interesting to hear how coarse people are grinding that find them produce weak and astringent brews?

Its a superb cupping grinder with original brew burrs. I blind cupped against Fuji R220 ghost burrs, aligned Forte steel brew burrs, Niche and Helor 101 with filter burrs, its pretty easy to pick P64 nine out 10 times.

OldmatefromOZ wrote:
Be interesting to hear how coarse people are grinding that find them produce weak and astringent brews?

For V60 (not the original filters, I have problems with clogging) / Kalita with 14g in 220g out recipe I use +8,5 most of the time. For Woodneck a little bit finer

The astringent taste I describe gets really worse if I grind finer, and thus the weak cup if I am forced to stay on the coarse side

Thats interesting....
8.5 is very coarse on mine, Im at 7.5 for a 30g V60 / 3:30 - 4:00.

At 4.5 / 12.5g 1 cup V60 I get no clogging and visibly very clean filter / bed, no muddy fines.

Additionally, I am super sensitive to astringency to the point I will sink an astringent brew ( also brew a lot of high grade whole leaf tea).

STG wrote:Extremely helpful. Thanks for this. The differences are subtle. Given your photos, I actually think I have the original unimodal and not the multi purpose. Can you tell from my photo above?

I'd wager they are unimodals based on the photo. The lighting from about 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock in that photo is where I would expect the flat outer edges to appear and I see none.

Thanks for that. But you'll also notice that between the unimodals that you posted, and my "unimodals" that the small grooves towards the outside are less in number on mine. Their quantity is more in line with the multi-purpose, casting further doubt on this whole thing for me.

Just want to point out if it's been missed: the top and bottom burr of each burr set has different anount of teeth and grooves. So if you compare a bottom to a photo of a top burr it would be confusing.

If a burr has no flat spots on the outer finishing section it is the SSP Brew/Unimodal. If it has flat spots it's the Multipurpose.