SSP 64mm brew burrs in the espresso range

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Rytopa

#1: Post by Rytopa » Sep 05, 2019, 5:21 am

The SSP 64MM brew burrs are very different from the normal espresso burrs in the espresso range, it pulls very differently.

Filter range wise it is easily an extraction monster, wining on tons of clarity at higher extraction levels.

If you happen to have a super jolly lying around of similar which fits the common mazzer super jolly burrs, you could get a set from SSP and test it out.

One thing for sure the burrs are unimodal as hell in the espresso range. At the finest range before burr rub, texture like talcum powers, the puck will not choke, i always get strange reactions when i get my friends to feel the grounds before pulling a shot, and making a bet if it chokes :D

I did some testing with the EK43 SSP vs Brew 64MM

Espresso setting by taste:

EK
400um: 2.2g
200 um: 6.7g
Fines: 1.5g

64MM
400um: 1.8g
200um: 7.6g
Fines: 0.4g


...split from Lagom P64 Flat (Option-O) by moderator...

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Denis

#2: Post by Denis » Sep 05, 2019, 5:31 am

Are you sure everything is top notch with your ek43? (hipper aligned, new carrier (the original one has 30 to 50 microns play)). Your numbers are strange.

You have 14.42% "fines" but the real number is higher because of the sticking fines. :(

Fines are 0-100microns or what is left under 200 microns in your case? Fines are more cause they stick to bigger chunks, but the numbers you get are pretty damn high, alignment is not where it should be.
Easy way to check if your grinder is where it should be, the more aligned it is the more far away you are from 0. Before alignment light filter roast between 0-0.5 on scale, after alignment with Titus carrier between 1.2-1.8 on scale. Big difference in taste too.

Check this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVmLv1Ehg72/

I find it hard to believe a Super Jolly can outperform an Ek43 with SSP high uniformity burrs aligned to ~5 microns. The Mazzer upper burr collar has a huge axial play (you can feel it by hand, and it 's a big wobble, that means it something like 100-200microns).

Original ek43 burr carrier is this:
You can align your static burr to 0, but the exterior/moving burr is out by a lot.

Rytopa

#3: Post by Rytopa » Sep 05, 2019, 9:19 am

The numbers maybe alittle outdated, cause i have since did sanded down the carrier + titus carrier upgrade, have not had time to do any serious kruving since than. Currently my roast are pulled around 1.2-2 , mostly around 1.7.

I am trying to bring the attention to the 64MM brew burrs, yes the the alignment is sub optimal with the super jolly/HC600, but its the way the shot behaves, just basing on feel and touch of the grinds from this burrs, its a very very different sensation. Its very strange, like turkish, but pulls like very coarse grinds. Make no doubt this 64MM burrs with super aligned + Variable RPM is gonna be a monster. The price is right, the burrs are unique, the foot print is small.

My theory is the grinds are very homogeneous and uniform in size, acting like water, it erodes very quickly in water, it does not hold pressure at all. however if pressure if is applied very forcefully and suddenly it will be in compressible like concrete, totally resisting water. I tried this with the robot, applying very sudden and forceful pressure, the puck seem to suddenly seize up, the harder you press the more hard it pushes back, there was totally no water flow thru at all. The grinds are totally compressed together with zero gap, behaving like a block of concrete.

Words are hard to describe this grinds, i have tried taking a few pictures and video, bear in mind at this turkish grind setting (close to burr rub) its still a gusher
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Rytopa

#4: Post by Rytopa » Sep 05, 2019, 9:27 am

The burrs themselve are very unique in geometry. Very smooth with out much crushing zones, the edge are rather flat, without much raised surfaces.

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Denis

#5: Post by Denis » Sep 05, 2019, 9:40 am

Now we are talking, you can get the same geometry in your ek43, problem might be the burrs or with your new setup you have less fines, you need to redo the test.

This is my espresso custom burrs geometry, if I grind fine and push water aggressive in PI I get the same puck compression followed by dry spots on naked, channeling and low EY.


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samuellaw178
Team HB

#6: Post by samuellaw178 » Sep 05, 2019, 2:39 pm

Rytopa wrote: I am trying to bring the attention to the 64MM brew burrs, yes the the alignment is sub optimal with the super jolly/HC600, but its the way the shot behaves, just basing on feel and touch of the grinds from this burrs, its a very very different sensation. Its very strange, like turkish, but pulls like very coarse grinds.
Thanks for sharing. I am quite curious about the burrs with this brew geometry. Did you encounter any issues with it not grinding fine enough for espresso? That's one of the downsides with my EK43 'unimodal' stock burrs, which was aligned by the previous owner using the titus alignment tool and shim. It grinds fine enough for most coffees, but there are occasionally one or two light roasts that just can't extract slow enough (I'm not even aiming for 1:2 ratio for the EK anymore, but Lungo. Normale shots are Niche's job :lol: ). I was assuming it was due to the burrs geometry, and possibly the alignment which I have no way to check...


Edit: sorry, missed your later paragraph (below)... :oops: so it does have the same not grinding fine enough issue...How often does that happen?
...bear in mind at this turkish grind setting (close to burr rub) its still a gusher

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Denis

#7: Post by Denis » Sep 05, 2019, 2:54 pm

Do nutation it will solve your problem. You will get better pours, more centered with slow flow.
Another way is to do more fines, use frozen beans, or cold.... not heated at 30 C.

samuellaw178
Team HB

#8: Post by samuellaw178 » replying to Denis » Sep 05, 2019, 3:25 pm

Thanks Denis, appreciate that. It does feel more like a patch fix though, but I can certainly use those technique when I encounter beans like that again. I am trying to understand if this is a sign that my alignment is not good enough, or this in general is the nature of the beast? It almost sounded like you have lots of experience dealing with that (with your super aligned Guatemala do you still have to do these techniques?)

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Denis

#9: Post by Denis » Sep 05, 2019, 3:36 pm

The Guatemala is different from ek43. I grind at ~4 on my dial and at ~3 with super light roasts. Still have plenty of space left.

Ek grinds between 0 and 2 for espresso, depends on what burrs you have, what carrier you have (Titus but what model) and what beans are you using.

You can read about how to check your alignment on your ek43 buying a gauge from amazon or a shop near you. It should not cost a fortune, I got mine for 30-50$, and you need long 80mm M4 or M5 screw to fix the gauge on the shaft. Another method is to fix the gauge with a magnetic piece you find online.

After you have everything set (SSP+ align+ last burr carrier) you will grind between 1.2 up to 2.5 for espresso roasts or even more.
1.2 is for filter roast, light, with 20-30s preinfusion.

One little thing, nutation is something wonderful for light roasts, because it doesn't force you to grind really ultra Turkish fine, so you get better extractions with coarser grind. Finer grinds in light roasts means puck is compacting under pressure and you don't extract everything, so you get a low EY/watery shot. I find it mandatory just like WDT with a needle device.

dimka323

#10: Post by dimka323 » Sep 07, 2019, 3:31 am

What is the conclusion?
SSP 64mm burrs, good for espresso?
Good for brew?
Good for both?