Short Comparison Apex vs C40mk3 vs Kinu M47 vs M47Po vs Chestnut G1

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.

#1: Post by Yan »

After 1 month I have the Commandante C40mk3 it's time make some short comparison of my hand grinders collections and also my sister hand grinder Chestnut G1.
There will be 3 things I will be compare: setting mechanism, image comparison of grinds side by side, and cup quality based on my limited knowledge and sensory skills.

Setting Mechanism
1. OE Apex there are 18 setting switch and I think this is the most easy from all the grinders, just turn the switch from far left the finest as 0 and switch to the right to get a coarser grind.

2. Commandante C40 and Timemore Chestnut G1 pretty much using the same concept the grind setting in the bottom area of the grinder, turn the knob to clockwise until the knob stop and then counting the counter clock wise to get the coarser setting, setting zero the C40 turning the knob clockwise until the handle stop not loose in grinder horizontal orientation, getting the new clicks number will be repeating to zero and set a new ones, it feels complicated at the beginning after one week it's getting more comfortable to running the ritual :D

3. Kinu M47 Traveler have the most micro steps adjustment in the grind size between all of my collection, 5 rotations x 10 number mark x 5 micro adjustment between number mark, so totally 250 micro step... it's an espresso grinder so precisions are they number 1 priority...

Grind Comparison
For grind comparison I use a ruler at the bottom, it's more universal comparison in size than Indonesian Rupiah coin...
1. Apex Setting at 2

2. Commandante C40mk3 at 22

3. Kinu M47 Pour Over Burr at 4+1+0

4. Kinu M47 at 4+3+0

5. Timemore Chestnut G1 at 20

Some comparison side by side
1. Apex vs C40

2. C40 vs M47 Pour Over Burr

3. M47 Pour Over Burr vs M47 Standard Burr

4. M47 Standard Burr vs Timemore Chestnut G1

All grinders

Cup Quality
The cup quality will be using Kenyan Coffee, V.60-01, 13/200 with TWW, 5x40gr pulse pouring, 94-95C, brew time around 2:20-2:50
The result will be coming soon... :D


#2: Post by Jonk »

Look forward to the results :) just curious - why so coarse setting with the Timemore?

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Yan (original poster)

#3: Post by Yan (original poster) » replying to Jonk »

The Timemore make some variations with the grindsize when I set at 18/19 it's too small from all the grinders, I set at 20 there's some bigger boulders and some smaller than the others but the majority not much different with the others.

Supporter ♡

#4: Post by jbviau »

How did you decide on these grind settings as being "equivalent" for pourover?
"It's not anecdotal evidence, it's artisanal data." -Matt Yglesias

Yan (original poster)

#5: Post by Yan (original poster) » replying to jbviau »

It's based on my Apex grindsize for single cup 12-13/200 and brew time 2:20 to 2:40 if I go to my Commandante as a baseline to very fine drip at 18 clicks my Apex can not go to that small size and the Kinu will be too long cause it's too much fines, the other factor this Kenyan beans a bit slow to drow down.
My first taste comparison attempt were failed it's too under extract, this morning I realized my TWW ppm were too high.

I try to dillute to moderate concentrate and result were closed to my expectations


#6: Post by Emilio »


Thanks Yan!

Yan (original poster)

#7: Post by Yan (original poster) »

The last part of the short comparison is the cup quality... there are some adjustment in the recipe, the TWW already corrected by diluting to 115ppm, using plastic V.60-01/02, 12/200, 4x50gr pulse pouring, 94-95C, brew time around 2:20-2:50.
Before doing the cup quality I do some speed and retention test between all the grinder based on 13 grams just in case some grinder have significant retention.
1. Apex in 13gr out 12.7gr, grind time 1 min 30s
2. Commandante 13gr in out 12.8gr, grind time 30s
3. Kinu in 13gr out 12.8 gr, grind time 18s
4. Kinu Pour Over Burr in 13gr out 12.7 gr, grind time 58s
5. Timemore in 13gr out 13gr, grind time 20s

Cup Quality
Brew time (12/200) and cup quality:
1. Apex brew time 2m15s the cup quality very exceptional strong Blackcurrant, Lemon & medium honey notes, complex acidity, very good clarity in notes separation, mild and rounder body, honestly I hope it will be neck to neck with C40, I use the C40 almost everyday and it feels like comparable to the Apex but doing side by side definitely the Apex on the different level with C40 in cups.

2. Commandante C40 brew time 2m30s the cup quality is rather a balance sweetness and acidity, also has good clarity but not as good as the Apex, medium Blackcurrant and lemon notes, mild body but not rounded as the Apex, clean and nice finish.

3. Kinu M47 brew time 2m35s the cup quality it quite surprising it wasn't too far from the C40 in term of medium blackcurrant notes, but less lemon acidity, its better mouthfeel than all the grinders and long lingering finish, it wasn't as clean as the C40 but good enough it wasn't muddy either.

4. Kinu M47 Pour Over Burr brew time 2m30s the cup quality overall less enjoyable from the original burr lack of sweetness, and a bit bright lemon acidity it's cleaner than the Original Burr, but short finish. honestly. I never exited about the the PO burr but some people really likes the character, btw the burr already passing 6kgs seasoning, I brew many times with M47PO in the past and the result not much different, maybe my burr ain't perfect I wish I can try another one from another Indonesian fellow... :D

5. Timemore Chestnut G1 brew time 2m20s, for the Timemore I think I need to try another ones normally the Timemore perform really well at least not far from Kinu M47 but today it kind of muted notes and less fragrant and aroma from the beginning.
Rebrew this morning with same recipe:
Brewing time 2m20s the cup quality medium Blackcurrant sweetness with bright lemon notes, light body, clean and nicely finish, very enjoyable cups, sometimes a much easier to get a more balance notes from the Timemore rather than the M47.

Todays wasn't my lucky day...after I grind all the beans to speed up the brewing process as you can see my 1.2 L PID Brewista are On..

There are power black out in large area in Jakarta Indonesia so I have to switch using the stove to boiling the TWW water and Tap water for flushing the paper filter ... :lol:

The last Apex brew...using my brother kettle Yami 700ml

Tasting all the 5 cups from left to right Apex, C40, Kinu, Kinu PO & Timemore G1

I wish i have better skill to explain the technical term or sensory notes between the grinders...
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#8: Post by iBrew »

It's not surprising to see the Apex out perform the other grinders for brewed coffee, about a year ago a few friends and I compared the Apex to the EK43 and we found them to be on equal grounds. If you're ok with hand grinding the Apex should be at the top on your list.

Yan (original poster)

#9: Post by Yan (original poster) »

Yes I also saw the Prima review about the Apex, they also echoing what you have been mention comparable to EK43.
It takes time to grind finer but it's performed very2 good in the cup.

Yan (original poster)

#10: Post by Yan (original poster) »

Emilio wrote:Interesting!

Thanks Yan!
You are welcome,
The result comes clear ... Imho from Best to Standard:
APEX >>> C40MK3 >> Kinu/Timemore > Kinu Pour Over Burr