malling wrote: And Kafatek mentioned 2000w on their Max specs but neither give full specs of their motors.

I suspect the 1300W they mentioned would be max and not industry standard mentioning of min.

While I have not seen or used a monolith, I have no disillusions about its quality, I'm sure it's up to the task and then some. But I don't appreciate the approach to marketing they take. Geared to deliver 2000w of power doesn't explain enough to me. If the motor is 200w Bldc, and (I'm guessing) there is a 5:1 gearbox. Then I can see how the rpm would drop from 2000 to 400 to supply more torque. It seems this is being construed as delivering the equivalent power as a 2000w AC motor at ~1800rpm. At least this is how I interpret it. Perhaps I'm wrong. Anyone know what the gearbox ratio is?

In contrast the p100 just exclaims 1300w peak draw.

buckersss wrote:Anyone know what the gearbox ratio is?

It is 10:1 reduction.

The motor is 200W, 3,000 RPM "rated", but goes to 4,000 rpm. The controller is programmed for the gear reduction and goes up to 400 rpm.

Ty Jake. Assuming you can take the P100 specs at face value, I would have thought the bottom line is the two have comparable torques.

The P100 has a slight gear reduction, as well. Cant remember the ratio off hand.

For this information to be useful, you're going to need to be more precise in what you're measuring. OP mentions torque, but measured in watts. Torque is measured in newton-meters or foot-pounds. Watts measures power. Power = Torque x RPM.

So, a grinder that spins large burrs at high RPM will need a lot of power so that enough torque is applied to the burrs to grind the coffee. Not enough torque means the burrs will slow down or stall during grinding. Smaller burrs will need less torque to grind. Gearing the motor down gives us more torque at the cost of speed (rpm), which means slower grind time, but ample power for grinding hard beans.

There's also losses in the systems. Different electric motors and different gearboxes will have different losses (efficiency). There is also loss involved in control circuitry. So, if we measure the input power (watts) of two grinders using an inexpensive meter (such as a kill-o-watt) and one grinder shows 1000w but another shows 800w, the 800w might have more output power than the 1000w if it's more efficient.

Peak torque could be measured at the moving burr, but that still might not be useful information. Different burr sizes and designs will put different loads on the grinder while grinding. Ultimately, you also just need to make sure that you have enough power applied to the burrs to grind the coffee you're grinding. A ridiculously overpowered motor will cost more and might be able to grind gravel into dust, but would not do any better grinding coffee.

Finding the specs for Kafatek motors is easy, just have someone read you the P/N off the motor and look it up on the manufacturer's web site. Here's one for a first batch Monolith flat.

Here's an article that explains things better than I can:

https://islproducts.com/design-note/how ... ce-curves/

I think it's downright impossible to get accurate results across a range of grinders. I'm ballparking, fermi-esque, which I believe is still useful. but I appreciate leaves a large room for error. At that point I feel like I've at least poured enough effort into the process that I can sleep sound at night with my purchasing decision.