Pietro by Fiorenzato - vertical flat-burr manual grinders - Page 5

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
iyayy

#41: Post by iyayy »

just a bean feeding.
if u feed one beans, its easy to crank.
but some burrs can take several beans around its burr together, causing harder crank.

eg 1zK (and commandante, theres few japanese videos about it since its popular there) it harder to turn compared to timemore c2, at both brew and espresso. but the c2 burr shape only receive beans slowly it is easier to crank even with short lever, but takes much much longer to do. italmills are quite easy as well, but its also probably has more gradual chopping to have broader distribution vs unimodal 1zk.

its a balance of how fast vs how aggressive burr shape receive feeds. this burr probably allows 4-5beans to feed at once (based on the gaps), which is probably a middle ground, but i'd prefer 2-3 for light roasts, slower but smoother/less wobble/less force required.

again i dont really agree on the crank design, for its shortness.
1zK extra inch length is really noticeable vs timemore c2 short crank for leverage.

malling

#42: Post by malling »

Yes it's the burr design that determines how hard or easy it is to crank if everything else is equal. The easier it is to crank the longer it usually take to grind a dose, the shorter it takes the harder it usually is. It been rather consistent across all the hand grinders I owned over the years.

Yes how many beans are fed at a time means a lot for the effort you have to put into it and the duration of grinsing a dose.

There is a balance of not to long grinding time and not being overly hard grinding.

The biggest obstacle of flat is the need for higher RPM due to centrifugal force to push the grinds out in design that are horizontal mounted. That means more force that needed to be applied and you can have lots of beans inside those burrs if not designed correctly by a slow feed. In a vertical mounted you rely on gravity as well so it partially solve some of the issues with relying surely on centrifugal force, but being flat you still need enough centrifugal force , my guess is you still need to deliver something like 100-200rpm to get the best results out of a flat burr.

Edoardo

#43: Post by Edoardo »

tried in Milan last week, making it simple, it has mostly everithing you want from an handgrinder but the usability (and wasn't able to check the retention), it is a bit frustrating the instability of it during grinding, chopping your finger with the handle if you don't take it from the top in the right way, and on the table if you have big hands (this last part I only hear one barista conplain about it), they will make a base for the grinder to make it stable and you can even chose put the grinder in diagonal way, hoping will be included with the grinder but I'm not so optimistic. The force used to grind for espresso medium roast beans is like grind light roast with my kinu mostly, so I don't think this will be a problem, as for the grinding time, if I remember correcly, were 1 minute for 18gr for espresso, and 30 seconds for filter

malling

#44: Post by malling »

If it's as hard grinding a medium roast as a light I certainly don't think it will be enjoyable experience with a light... I look forward to Hedrick review when he eventually get to it, hopefully by then they supply that base as I stated early on is necessary... I must say I'm not overly shocked your experience show it.

But a first iteration of a company never done this before is always going to have some issues, hopefully this will lead to more flatburr hand grinders especially from companies with more experience in hand grinders. Yes I'm not a fan of conical as if you push the extraction they all tend to get some rather unpleasant bitterness. But for pure transportability a flat is probably never going to rival those, this is still a rather big handgrinder.

Edoardo

#45: Post by Edoardo »

malling wrote: as I stated early on is necessary...

actually it is not necessary, you can grind without it of course, it is not stable but neither it can slip, but it is not an enjoyable experience

malling

#46: Post by malling »

Edoardo wrote: actually it is not necessary, you can grind without it of course, it is not stable but neither it can slip, but it is not an enjoyable experience
:mrgreen: in my book it's the same, if it's so little enjoyable without then you probably would always use it with.

Janika79

#47: Post by Janika79 »

The grinding may take a bit longer than with conical burrs, but it seems pretty nice.

boren (original poster)

#48: Post by boren (original poster) »

Cool video, but it demonstrates nicely that this grinder really needs a wider base. I hope they add one in the Mk II version of the grinder ;-)

Acavia

#49: Post by Acavia »

What is the burr size? Edit: I see from first message, 58mm

malling

#50: Post by malling »

Janika79 wrote:The grinding may take a bit longer than with conical burrs, but it seems pretty nice.

video
It's going to be a nightmare with light for espresso this was noticeably darker roast and it already took some time and effort... It definitely need that base, I imagine it's passable with the other burrs for filter.

I agree v2 with a different base might be a fine grinder it's definitely potential and I really want to see more flat burrs.

Also this is by far the easiest hand grinders to get into the burrs and clean, I do wonder the effect on alignment and longevity but I like the very easy and fast access. That said there dos seem to be a fair amount of plastic in it.