Owner experience with HG one grinder - Page 35

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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JohnB.
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#341: Post by JohnB. »

FotonDrv wrote:So you used that plastic cone to dispense into the paper cup?
Heck, I cannot find paper cups! they all have wax or plastic on them.
The paper cups are nothing special. 9oz Dixie Cold Cups from Target. As for the Aeropress funnel it's not a cure for static but I prefer it the stock funnel. No clean up as nothing sticks to it & no bumping around trying to line up the magnets. Cleaned off the stock funnel & put it in a drawer.
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FotonDrv
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#342: Post by FotonDrv replying to JohnB. »

I will have to search for one!

Target should be on my list too....
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mivanitsky
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#343: Post by mivanitsky »

I have intermittent static issues, depending on humidity and use of heater in my great room/kitchen. It is affected by all of the usual bean parameters as have been documented ad infinitum in this thread.

RDT ameliorates the static. Most of the time, it is not bad enough to make me do it.

I dose into a 3oz Dixie bathroom paper cup, elevated on an old PF basket (inverted). I purchased these cups at Safeway.

I clear the funnel with tap and brush if necessary. No matter how bad the static in the funnel, nothing sticks to the cup.

I then invert the cup into the PF, shaking a few times, remove the cup, and tap to settle.

Nutate, light tamp, and go. Predictably perfect every time, as long as I do not make a mistake in my prep. Vertical tapping must be level, or the edge channeling can be heinous. If the prep is botched, then WDT fixes it. Alternatively, back to the cup and re-shake. Paying attention, I never find this necessary at this point.

I have ordered some appropriately sized bamboo cups to use instead of the dixie cups, and will update to let everyone know how that works out.

This grinder has static issues sometimes, which can easily be circumvented by two different techniques, each of which adds no more than 15 sec to the prep. They are also much easier than the work needed to single dose a titan conical like my Kony-E. As such, I find this grinder to be an excellent grinder for low or unhurried volumes of carefully dosed shots.

I have not found the quality to be in any way inferior to my Kony-E, which at this point will be relegated to parties, or when I need to pull 50 shots when collaborating on the making of coffee beer.

I would pay extra for a better lower funnel that does not have static issues. The HG One, while not absolutely perfect, does not miss the mark by much. Any competent home barista, who can go through the gyrations necessary to use a titan conical for single dosing at home, or who is capable of coaxing any kind of a good shot out of lesser grinders, will find this grinder easy to use, predictable, and of unrivaled quality. It is a better value than titan conicals for home use. The Pharos is a better value still, dollar wise, with slightly higher "fiddle-factor," but with the added bonus of portability. Most of us will not find any differences in the cup among any of these grinders, most likely.

It's fantastic to have so many excellent choices. Those who cannot afford titan motorized conicals no longer have to "settle" for other burr sets, unless they desire the flavor profile of a small or flat burr.

Mike

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Bob_McBob
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#344: Post by Bob_McBob »

JohnB. wrote:I substituted an Aeropress funnel for the stock HG-One funnel today.
I will have to give this a shot tomorrow. I seem to use the Aeropress funnel practically every time I make coffee these days.

How are you preparing the basket after grinding?
Chris

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JohnB.
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#345: Post by JohnB. »

I shake the grounds around some in the paper cup & pour them into the p/f w/an OE dosing funnel attached. A few taps to settle & some WDT using one end of a p/f spring. Remove funnel, level if necessary & tamp. I tried stirring the grounds with that cocktail wisk I bought while they are still in the cups but it has no positive effect. The grounds still fall into the p/f in small clumps.
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JohnB.
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#346: Post by JohnB. »

mivanitsky wrote:This grinder has static issues sometimes, which can easily be circumvented by two different techniques, each of which adds no more than 15 sec to the prep. They are also much easier than the work needed to single dose a titan conical like my Kony-E. As such, I find this grinder to be an excellent grinder for low or unhurried volumes of carefully dosed shots.Mike
I also think that the HG-One is a damn nice grinder despite the issues but there is no way that it is easier or faster then grinding a shot with my K10WBC. No RDT, no WDT, no shaking in a paper cup & of course no turning a crank for 35-40 seconds. Just dump in the beans, turn on the grinder, sweep the chute with a couple brief pulses, dose & tamp. That's pretty hard to beat & I don't see any hand grinder topping it, especially one with static & distribution issues.
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TomC (original poster)
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#347: Post by TomC (original poster) »

I'll play devils advocate to that argument, but only part of it. Since now, I am starting to think with the RDT, grinder retention as a whole ( electric or hand powered) is so well controlled, that the weight dosing pre/post is now a moot point. I'd still like to see someone take a K10 and clean it from scratch, then document a good months worth of use, doing single dosing only, weighing pre/post, while using RDT, then stripping, cleaning and documenting the residual weight of stuck grinds, but thats another thread....

Anyways, I'd still argue that if your requirements are 1) dead on accurate dosing within 0.1g 2) firmly committed to no stale grinds making it into your portafilter. The HG-One will match the K10. Maybe not 100% of the time, if all your conditions are perfect for the K10, and you don't have to grind more to get within 0.1g, it might edge it out, but I doubt by more than 2 or 3 seconds. I've used the K10 before and in the time it takes to dose, grind, sweep and bump clean, then re-weigh to guarantee weight, then dose; my HG-One has the shot heading towards the group already.

My only subjective point that I can back that up with is my own experience though. I haven't used a WDT needle in a month now. I don't get a single clump at all. From the paper cup, I shake it into the basket almost the same way you'd pour sugar, evenly distributing as I go, a quick bump against my tamping stand to level, and I'm good to go.

In our next home barista meet up, I will definitely be looking for someone with a K10 and a gram scale to join us, because I'll video the whole event to share. It would have to be with very specific parameters, because if you don't care about dose within 0.25-0.50 of a gram or so, then it doesn't make much of a difference.
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Bob_McBob
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#348: Post by Bob_McBob »

JohnB. wrote:I also think that the HG-One is a damn nice grinder despite the issues but there is no way that it is easier or faster then grinding a shot with my K10WBC. No RDT, no WDT, no shaking in a paper cup & of course no turning a crank for 35-40 seconds. Just dump in the beans, turn on the grinder, sweep the chute with a couple brief pulses, dose & tamp. That's pretty hard to beat & I don't see any hand grinder topping it, especially one with static & distribution issues.
TomC wrote:I've used the K10 before and in the time it takes to dose, grind, sweep and bump clean, then re-weigh to guarantee weight, then dose; my HG-One has the shot heading towards the group already.
Like John, I actually own both grinders, and I agree with his assessment of their relative speed and ease of use. I have no great love for the bump and brush routine, and I specifically said back in November that I hoped the HG One would offer a workflow approximately as fast as the K10. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for me, especially given the extra basket prep the HG One requires.

I would be very interested to see everyone's videos of bottomless HG One extractions with either no or extremely minimal distribution prep work.
Chris

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Peppersass
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#349: Post by Peppersass »

ihor wrote:Micrometer scales are for precision - grinding beans is about variabilities and approximations - art not science.

The HG-One is about simplicity and distillation of design intent.

Adding the scale presumes you can return to the exact micro-position for the next batch of beans - not possible or even probable. The ability to "feel' your adjustments based on 'understanding' your next bean connects you to the bean directly.

This is a beautiful, simple, machine - nothing more, nothing less, and as one famous Jazz musician once said, "Simple ain't easy".
I didn't say that the grinder must be returned the exact micro-position. I'm sure there's enough slop in the mechanism and variation in the beans (roast level, age, etc.) that it's really not possible. However, with my K10 I always start from the same grinder mark when grinding a coffee that I've previously dialed in -- even months before. I would say about 75% of the time no further adjustment is necessary. If the flow rate isn't quite right, it never takes moving the setting more than one mark to either side to fix it.

Most of you who responded negatively to my post missed the point entirely: without numbers, it's awkward to record the grind setting that works for the particular coffee you're dialing in. How do you identify which mark is the one you need to start from? Even on my K10 it's a bit of a bother because the marks are numbered only every 10 ticks, with a larger mark every 5 ticks. I have to count the number of marks from one of these references to get the value to record. Nevertheless, a number system like that is needed on the HG One (or, better yet, every mark should be numbered.)

As for dialing in by "feeling what's right", I've seen that same description by the HG One folks and I have no idea what it means. I dial in by trial-and-error, judging the results by the time it takes to produce the beverage weight corresponding to my target brew ratio (i.e., the flow rate) and the taste in the cup (and sometimes the extraction yield measured with a VST refractometer.) If the flow rate is too fast and/or the cup is too sour (under extracted) I tighten the grind. If the flow rate is too slow and/or the cup is too bitter (over extracted), I loosen the grind. Then I fine tune the taste with small adjustments to dose, grind and temperature.

When I'm all done, I record the dose down to the 0.1g, the time, the temperature and the grinder setting. All I'm asking for is an easy way to record that last item.

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Peppersass
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#350: Post by Peppersass »

Bob_McBob wrote:Like John, I actually own both grinders, and I agree with his assessment of their relative speed and ease of use. I have no great love for the bump and brush routine, and I specifically said back in November that I hoped the HG One would offer a workflow approximately as fast as the K10. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for me, especially given the extra basket prep the HG One requires.

I would be very interested to see everyone's videos of bottomless HG One extractions with either no or extremely minimal distribution prep work.
I'm very interested in this grinder, especially as it compares with the K10, but it seems to me that Bob is the only HG One owner who is objectively reporting his findings. From what I've read, there are some significant flaws that need to be addressed before the HG One would be acceptable to me as a replacement for the K10. If people keep making excuses for the flaws, instead of complaining about them, the folks at HG One will have no incentive to address the problems.

I find this disappointing. The HG One has the potential to be the ultimate grinder, but it's going to take more R&D to get there.