Orphan Espresso Apex Grinder - Page 35

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
dale_cooper

Postby dale_cooper » Jan 11, 2019, 9:24 am

Barb and Doug, I love all your hard work. Any update on when the batch of Apex grinders will be stateside for reduced shipping cost to USA?

Richard

Postby Richard » Jan 11, 2019, 12:27 pm

orchidee wrote:Nice, I see that you have a forte BG as do I, what do you think of the Apex in relation to it, is it an upgrade?

Since receiving the Apex late last month I have been using it for all brewed coffee grinding. Not fussing with it. Not taking it apart. Not beating on it. Not worrying about a few tenths of a gram "retention." Just using it and enjoying the coffee. And enjoyable it has been, with a marvelous clarity and separation of flavors in the cup.

This morning, for the first time since receiving the Apex, I put the Forte BG back on the counter and did some side-by-side taste comparison, one cup from Forte BG and one cup from Apex. This is not scientific, it is not objective, and it means little; is is simply my impressionistic take on what I tasted at that moment in time.

Coffee this morning: Mamuto AB, from George Howell. Water, George Howell's formula. Brewer of the moment, Technivorm Cup One with Filtropa paper filters. I sampled and enjoyed the two cups for ~ 45 minutes, through a complete coolodown and related shifts in taste. The Apex cup wins.

Comparatively speaking, the Forte cup had the bright, pleasant Mamuto flavors and fruit with the expected acidity. The Apex cup exhibited similar taste but with a more fruitlike subtlety (the blueberries), better separation of flavors, and a "cleaner" mouthfeel. The Forte is back in the cupboard.

I'll play with this again in coming weeks with a variety of coffees.
Richard J. Wyble

dale_cooper

Postby dale_cooper » replying to Richard » Jan 11, 2019, 4:45 pm

Thank you for your impressions, thats awesome, especially considering how good of a brew grinder, the Forte is....

cameron84

Postby cameron84 » Jan 11, 2019, 9:22 pm

I think the Apex is (for me) performing as expected. I do get quite a lot of retention, anywhere up to 2-3 grams, and cranking is a little annoying on the lighter roast I'm using. But clarity in the cup has been amazing. Just using an "espresso-intended" blend from work from a reputable roaster and loving every cup. Surprisingly the one thing I don't think I'm in love with is the planetary gear drive. I prefer the 1:1 of the Pharos.

Yan

Postby Yan » Jan 11, 2019, 11:01 pm

orphanespresso wrote:And the coffee has been tasty. We don't tinker, take it apart, mess with it often, it just functions, with minimum intervention. Leaving it alone leads to minimal retention, and minimum fuss... It just grinds coffee. Try not to overthink it. We hope at some point it functions this way for you too...
-Barb & Doug


Hi Doug & Barb,
Thanks for the info...
Any update what parts will be sell in the future for Apex, or any possibility a modifications parts for easier operations...

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naked-portafilter

Postby naked-portafilter » Jan 13, 2019, 5:09 pm

Richard wrote: This is not scientific, it is not objective, and it means little; is is simply my impressionistic take on what I tasted at that moment in time.

Coffee this morning: Mamuto AB, from George Howell. Water, George Howell's formula. Brewer of the moment, Technivorm Cup One with Filtropa paper filters. I sampled and enjoyed the two cups for ~ 45 minutes, through a complete coolodown and related shifts in taste. The Apex cup wins.

Comparatively speaking, the Forte cup had the bright, pleasant Mamuto flavors and fruit with the expected acidity. The Apex cup exhibited similar taste but with a more fruitlike subtlety (the blueberries), better separation of flavors, and a "cleaner" mouthfeel. The Forte is back in the cupboard.



I like the APEX a lot. Maybe Doug should donate one to Scott Rao :-):
https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2019/1/5/baratza-forte-vs-ek43-which-is-better

Retention went back considerably after the first 2kg. I've made a timelapse of the second deep cleaning (the grinder's body is fixed to the countertop):


bpchia

Postby bpchia » Jan 14, 2019, 12:31 am

orphanespresso wrote:The beans were not too hard for the Apex, but they were harder than the beans previously used, and required more speed in turning to grind than the previously used beans needed. The 'stopping' was because not enough speed was applied.

Very simply put, at this juncture of the Apex mfg/intro...we designed & produced the Apex around the idea that it is a coffee grinder, and for many months, our #000 has functioned as a coffee grinder - it sits on the counter all day long, when it's time to make some coffee we throw in X amount of beans, turn the handle with an adequate speed to grind, resulting in X amt of coffee, and we brew the coffee. That's all it does. And the coffee has been tasty. We don't tinker, take it apart, mess with it often, it just functions, with minimum intervention. Leaving it alone leads to minimal retention, and minimum fuss... It just grinds coffee. Try not to overthink it. We hope at some point it functions this way for you too...
-Barb & Doug


Correct, I should have clarified this in my post. The Apex is working much better for me now. I still get a lot of retention, perhaps this is because I vacuum and brush out the grinder after every dose, so the coffee just builds up in there again?

But I also don't want old coffee grounds building up in there, and I can't see any way to prevent that than doing a full disassembly? I'll see what is left in there when I do it next.

It's hard to comment on a longer term basis, but the cup quality seems every bit as good as my EK43 and hopefully I find it surpasses it when it's seasoned properly. I may never get the same usability but I knew this when switching to the Apex.

BTW, can anyone explain what would be happening to these ghost burrs as they are seasoned, ie with >2kg of coffee through them???

So to summarise, the Apex which is 6 times cheaper than my EK43, has what I suspect is equal and hopefully better grind quality! That is high praise so I hope I don't turn anybody off it. I'll continue to post my findings.

Yan

Postby Yan » Jan 14, 2019, 1:44 am

bpchia wrote:So to summarise, the Apex which is 6 times cheaper than my EK43, has what I suspect is equal and hopefully better grind quality! That is high praise so I hope I don't turn anybody off it. I'll continue to post my findings.


Very interesting to hear the comparison with the EK43 with the good result...

baldheadracing

Postby baldheadracing » Jan 14, 2019, 10:03 am

bpchia wrote:... BTW, can anyone explain what would be happening to these ghost burrs as they are seasoned, ie with >2kg of coffee through them??? ...


Here's my theory:
1. Coffee oils are building up on the burrs. My theory is that coffee oil acts as a bit of a lubricant for subsequent beans. Thus, those beans slide easier between the teeth so grinding is somehow different. If this is theory is true, then one of the consequences should be faster seasoning with darker roasts.
2. Micro-burrs, if any, are removed. I had my Apex open pretty early because I got thrust washer-related noises and the burr parts that I could see looked perfect to me.
3. Spaces are getting filled. I think that are very few spaces in this grinder overall, and many of those are the once filled; never empty type. Once coffee is packed into those spaces, they (more-or-less) don't matter - unless the cleaning is so thorough that those spaces are regularly emptied. For example, I don't vacuum or open/close the burrs; just a brush up the exit chute. (Brush is not needed for medium/dark roasts.) After a pretty full cleaning, it took about 300g of beans to get the retention (grinds out - beans in) to under 0.15 g on a 12-g-30g dose.

YMMV
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann

namelessone

Postby namelessone » Jan 14, 2019, 12:04 pm

I don't get why people are compelled to clean their grinders so frequently. After grounding only one more batch it will get "dirty" again. Ground coffee is dry and it's not like it will mold or anything.