Niche Zero to replace Mazzer Super Jolly - upgrade or sidegrade

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Hiro Protagonist
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Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by Hiro Protagonist »

I have a Mazzer SJ with a doser, the burrs are fairly new and OEM. I am considering purchasing a Niche Zero but weighing my options against new higher quality burrs for the SJ and doserless mod vs a new Niche Zero. Does anyone have experience with a modded SJ and a Niche Zero.

Would this be a sidegrade or an upgrade ?

I am Using a Decent DE1+ 1.4 Espresso Machine. I go through about 100g of coffee a day. Currently I use a distribution tool (Levercraft) and run 15g,18g, 20g portafilter baskets.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

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redbone
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#2: Post by redbone »

The fact that you are moving from flat burrs to conical burrs adds another dimension as opposed to flat vs bigger flat be it both well aligned and of similar ground size. My experience trialling grinders is that you will like some coffee and roasts with a flat vs conical burrs and vice versa. Even the same coffee with the same grinder but different brew methods will yield a preference.
Concerning espresso If I had to decide between both I prefer a flat but my all time favorite shots came from a hybrid Versalab DRM conical / flat burr grinder. DRM grinders use the conical for initial crushing allowing the flat geometry teeth to be optimized for final grind polishing. As noted by Nestlé R&D in Lausanne, Switzerland there is no such thing as unimodal grinds but some grinders / burrs produce less variances between grind output.
For larger grind brew methods (pour over, drip etc..) I've happily settled on a "ghost tooth" burrs which although produce more grind output variability also produce less fines. YMMD the fun is in experimenting.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
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Jonk
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#3: Post by Jonk »

I'd definitely view a Niche Zero as an upgrade over a stock Super Jolly. Aligned and with SSP burrs it'd be harder to tell I guess.

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d_leonit
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#4: Post by d_leonit »

Definitely a upgrade, the Niche Zero have a Mazzer Kony burrs inside, mounted in a very small body. :-). But there is already difference because flat vs conical burrs, different taste wise.


lessthanjoey
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#5: Post by lessthanjoey »

With SSP, doserless mod, and alignment I'd think there's nothing that makes the SJ worse than the Lagom P64. Personally I decided to go that path with my SJ, but I definitely see the attraction of the niche too, it's just easier to get there!

Agree that a big part of this is flat vs conical choice though.

Hiro Protagonist (original poster)
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#6: Post by Hiro Protagonist (original poster) »

Thanks everyone for the replies. You have given me plenty to think about.

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d_leonit
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#7: Post by d_leonit replying to Hiro Protagonist »

If you ask me go to conical like niche or to big flat like ultra. If you would like to see big difference.

LObin
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#8: Post by LObin »

Other than what people have already said, a commercial Mazzer needs some serious modifications and more manipulations in order to single dose and retain minimal coffee. It's doable. You can even achieve greatness with proper burr alignement. But it'll never be a single dosing grinder by design like the Niche is.

The other advantage of the Niche is the ease of adjustment and changing between grinding methods or simply settings when you're toying with different coffees.

You'll always find both flat and conical burrs fans when you're asking for people's preferences. John Buckman always seem to carry his Niche Zero around with him when he'a doing trade shows. It's quite a statement for the NZ grind quality. Food for thoughts... ;)
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Word_salad
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#9: Post by Word_salad »

I am probably in a good position to answer this since I have both. I use the niche for medium roasts and shots for milk drinks. It's a breeze to use and has a very large sweet spot, the lelit mara can be a bit finicky, but pairing it with the niche I almost always get good shots. In the cup the results are very good, nothing particularly mind blowing but simply great espresso.

The Super Jolly is a whole different story. Converting this into a functioning single doser with good results has taken a long time. I've added SSPs, spent plenty of time with alignment, added Daniel Wong's doserless kit, and replaced the switch so it's not on a timer. Even with all that there is a learning curve and nailing the grind is tricky. However, now that I've had it for a while I have gotten the retention down to zero and it has produced some truly amazing shots on some very hard to work with coffees. I use it mostly for light roasted washed Ethiopians and the jasmine and fruit flavors really explode in waves.

So as other posters have mentioned it really comes down to what you want the grinder to do. I will say the SJ has more room for experimentation and modification, although after all the modifications needed you will be closer to 1k, so maybe just go Ultra at that point

Jonk
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#10: Post by Jonk »

Word_salad wrote:The Super Jolly is a whole different story. Converting this into a functioning single doser with good results has taken a long time. I've added SSPs, spent plenty of time with alignment, added Daniel Wong's doserless kit, and replaced the switch so it's not on a timer. Even with all that there is a learning curve and nailing the grind is tricky. However, now that I've had it for a while I have gotten the retention down to zero and it has produced some truly amazing shots on some very hard to work with coffees. I use it mostly for light roasted washed Ethiopians and the jasmine and fruit flavors really explode in waves.
Is it the brew or espresso SSP set?

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