Niche Zero grinder - Page 128

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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redbone

Postby redbone » Jun 24, 2019, 2:07 pm

mivanitsky wrote:RDT and Niche are fine. Frozen beans are a nonissue with any quality grinder.

I use the older Kafatek WDT tool to defeat the safety switch on Niche, when using puffer.

Never load Niche hot... it popcorns violently.

Since my work MAX is out on loan, I'm using exclusively Niche Zero with LR currently. It's a great grinder. If you are unable/unwilling to pay for an MC3, or are frustrated by the Kafatek lottery, then this is 85-90% as good, at a very nice price point.


Not sure if coincidence or mere timing but I'm seeing many Kafatek conical grinders come up on Buy/Sell here with 3 currently listed. Seems that there is a market here for sub 1K good single dose grinders. Maybe Denis could consider a Taiwanese built cousin to address the demand. I digress as that would be an entirely different subject.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

Steveko23

Postby Steveko23 » Jun 25, 2019, 8:44 am

I've got a question on the pros/cons of the Niche vs one of the better hand grinders. I'm going to go with the assumption that I'm personally not going to be able to tell a difference between say M47, C40, Lido 3, Helor 101 or any of the higher end hand grinders, but what sort of differences might I expect comparing those to the Niche?
So the obvious differences, the Niche will be an easier workflow and take less time than manual grinding, but the manual grinder will likely outlast me (though I assume both will outlast me as I'm sure I'd upgrade at some point). So ignoring those differences and the Niche being ~3x the cost what differences might I expect?
I'm mostly espresso, depending on the day 0-4. I do enjoy french press and chemex, though hardly make them anymore because I currently don't have a capable grinder (currently using a $20 javapress lol). If I had a capable grinder I could seem myself making french press or chemex maybe 2 times a week? So probably at least 80% espresso, though you never know how new capable tools change the workflow.
I'd prefer not to get 2 grinders and let one go back and forth between espresso range and french press range, but realize this may not be optimal so I imagine it's possible at some point down the road I get an additional grinder for one or the other, but for now if possible I'd prefer a jack of all trades grinder rather than a master of one grinder and am willing to make that sacrifice. Though I have toyed with the idea of getting the OE Apex + OE Lido E which I think may be roughly the same price as the Niche.
Thoughts? Thanks!

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redbone

Postby redbone » Jun 25, 2019, 9:09 am

^
^^
If you're going to compare the Niche to hand grinders best to compare them to comparable burr size hand grinders. Once you compare the Niche 63mm conical burrs to similar sized hand grinder such as Kinu M68 the price is not that different. The OE Pharos 2.0 with 68mm burrs would be the only one less expensive within that range. The Helor Stance with 83mm conical burrs is more expensive. Other predominantly horizontal hand crank grinders range from high 30mm to mid 40mm burrs.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

Steveko23

Postby Steveko23 » Jun 25, 2019, 9:27 am

redbone wrote:If you're going to compare the Niche to hand grinders then compare them to comparable burr size hand grinders. Once you compare the Niche 63mm conical burrs to similar sized hand grinder such as Kinu M68 the price is not that different. The OE Pharos 2.0 with 68mm burrs would be the only one less expensive. The Helor Stance with 83mm conical burrs is more expensive.


Why? I didn't want to compare based on price, just wanted to compare a reasonably high quality hand grinder vs the Niche, I kinda wanted to ignore the price difference. What will the larger burrs on the niche give me? I guess maybe that's the main pro/con difference I'm looking for help quantifying...

User avatar
redbone

Postby redbone » Jun 25, 2019, 11:54 am

Steveko23 wrote:Why? I didn't want to compare based on price, just wanted to compare a reasonably high quality hand grinder vs the Niche, I kinda wanted to ignore the price difference. What will the larger burrs on the niche give me? I guess maybe that's the main pro/con difference I'm looking for help quantifying...


Burr size has been discussed here on H-B with previous threads that can be easily searched via the top search button. Consensus is that burr alignment plays a greater role in grind quality but assuming two grinders are equally well aligned the larger burr grinder does produce more favorable shots. I think it has something to do with the percentage or size of breaking vs cutting or finishing geometry producing less fines with larger burrs. Personally I found I prefer the faster grind times from the larger burrs. Large electrical burr grinders also tend to be quieter and more stable but typically come with a larger footprint penalty.

http://nordicbaristacup.com/2013/09/nbcscae-gold-cup-project-by-francisca-listov-saabye-nbc-researcher-and-randy-pope-bunn/

Empirical evidence data gathered from above link states little to no discernible taste difference between flat vs conical for drip coffee. I agree with the results for drip coffee but found that differences become more apparent for concentrated coffee brewing such as espresso. Also agree that the taste differences vary per coffee, roast level and grinders even with the same burr type.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

Fisher

Postby Fisher » Jun 25, 2019, 1:14 pm

Steveko23 wrote:Why? I didn't want to compare based on price, just wanted to compare a reasonably high quality hand grinder vs the Niche, I kinda wanted to ignore the price difference. What will the larger burrs on the niche give me? I guess maybe that's the main pro/con difference I'm looking for help quantifying...


For what it's worth, I have a Knock hand grinder (38mm burr) & a Niche (63mm burr)... and while there are perhaps minuscule differences in the cup, many would not be able to detect these (or if they do, state one has better or worse flavor notes), they are that slight. Perhaps those who use lighter roasts than I have found a different result, but based on my beans, I wouldn't say there is a huge or significant difference in the cup, overall, certainly not enough to make that a deciding factor when choosing. If budget, convenience, longevity, are your thing, those may be the bigger considerations on which to base your choice.

Fisher

Postby Fisher » Jun 25, 2019, 1:56 pm

The Niche makes good sense for those who want one grinder that does everything well (as it's so easy to regain a previous setting). Whereas, I think many would find it frustrating to grind both espresso & French press on the same hand-grinder, switching back & forth between grind settings, and then trying to regain an earlier setting).

sfhoo
Supporter ♡

Postby sfhoo » Jun 26, 2019, 6:53 am

mivanitsky wrote:RDT and Niche are fine. Frozen beans are a nonissue with any quality grinder.

I use the older Kafatek WDT tool to defeat the safety switch on Niche, when using puffer.

Never load Niche hot... it popcorns violently.

Since my work MAX is out on loan, I'm using exclusively Niche Zero with LR currently. It's a great grinder. If you are unable/unwilling to pay for an MC3, or are frustrated by the Kafatek lottery, then this is 85-90% as good, at a very nice price point.

quick question on the grind quality. How is the coarser grind for v60 compare to MAX?

sfhoo
Supporter ♡

Postby sfhoo » Jun 26, 2019, 6:57 am

Fisher wrote:The Niche makes good sense for those who want one grinder that does everything well (as it's so easy to regain a previous setting). Whereas, I think many would find it frustrating to grind both espresso & French press on the same hand-grinder, switching back & forth between grind settings, and then trying to regain an earlier setting).

I agreed. I brought my OE Lido 2 to office for making v60 and I hardly ever use it because of that. Tired of adjust for different beans.

Soharu

Postby Soharu » Jun 27, 2019, 7:18 am

Looks like slow pour supply is showing sept estimation for the niche zero now.