New Timemore Sculptor Grinders 064 064s 078 078s - Page 66

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.

#651: Post by randyh »

ibsprocket wrote:Please link to these videos. The only stalling on the 078/s motor that I've seen was Kyle on grind setting zero at 800rpm with a light roast.
I believe this was only for the 064s. Kyle explicitly said there was no stalling of any kind on the 078/s.


#652: Post by ibsprocket »

On a subsequent reel on his IG he said he experienced it with his production unit 078s. Nothing to worry about.


#653: Post by Reed10 »

Hello guys, esspress lungo only enthousiast here.
I would like to weight in (also backing the 78S).

As I prerequisite, we shall all agree that the guy shares his experience with the device that he has in hands, it would not be serving us, client, if reviwers only shared good experiences, and leave the bad ones / potential defects.
I know it is a human reflex, but we should try to avoid confirmation biais (reject critics because we bought the product).
Wether it is a general case or a defect, nothing tells us what would be the ratio of the presence of that defect. So better get timemore attention in my opinion.

1- regarding the sentiment about sifting, I actually think that in this particular use case it does give us great info, because there are considerable amount of corses in what he showed (wether they are round or not, the fact that they have being filtered in big amount by the sifting, tell us that it is at least a bi modal distribution) which contradicts the PR graphs from timemore. So it will hopefully intrigues the other reviewers into digging into it. The general consensus from all reviewers was that it was body oriented, so channels or not( tehnique differences) it clearly is not as unifrom (clarity oriented) as timemore's graphs would like us to believe* ( based on 5 reviewers until now).

2- they alignement was checked by him, and the specs were confirmed by timemore to him. In that, I think timemore should be upfront with us. and not give two contradicting messages, either they confirm publicly (not only to the reviewer) that this is the intended spec: multimodal* (bi ?) , Body oriented; and remove their PR graphs. Or they say this is a defect and assure us that the ratio of that defect would be low, and that they would replace if similar experience accur, and then keep the graphs.

Anybody agrees ?

By the way, I strongly believe that with this build quality + the maybe the best workflow out there (opinion)+ vertically mounted burrs+ high quality motor (78s) , If SSP give us high uniformity burrs in 78mm then it would probably be something to compare to 2k grinders. I keep my hopes up hahaha


#654: Post by malling replying to Reed10 »

But it doesn't help anyone if your trying to make a point if your fundament is build on entirely flawed approaches! You cannot back a thesis from using a Kruve, it's not a method designed for it, it is to remove boulders and fines as good as that and to find a given grinders sweet spot to be at when doing specific brew methods. You can also use it to as an additional check of alignment if you did one pre alignment and one post. But it cannot and I can't possibly cut it enough out in stones, use it for any sort of validation or evaluation of the grinders PSD, meaning it cannot be used for detecting if a grinder is more or less unimodal or bimodal. In other words it can neither prove or disprove the graph made by Timemore, also the mean size of timore is 750um so the graph isn't for espresso. That said it's a real odd graph.

On top we have issues with sample size, he had one grinder with one burr, that burr could be defective.


#655: Post by lukeap69 »

Survey email received. Completed as well. :mrgreen:


#656: Post by helderbarreto »

I am not able to choose changing from 078s to 078. Has anyone got success? The only options are to upgrade from 064/064s.


#657: Post by malling replying to helderbarreto »

You need to write it in the comment

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#658: Post by bringyoutomyhell replying to malling »

Yeah, and the Order's note are after the Address step

Even after completing the survey, one can "unlock" and edit it


#659: Post by cari66ean »

I've backed the 064s (for my parents) and 078s and seeing all the not-quite-but-almost negativity about the S versions in various reviews, especially the latter one from Charlie on YT, I decided to do some digging.

As Lance already mentioned in his 078 (non-s) preview review he believed the 078s is going to perform exceptional for espresso because of the similarity of the burrs to Weber's 80mm core burrs. And while not identical, they are quite similar in geometry:

The most notable difference in geometry seems to come from 15 pre breaker sections on the Core burrs vs. 20 pre breaker sections on the 078s as well as 4 teeth per pre breaker on the Core burrs and 3 teeth per pre breaker on the 078s. However, when looking at the length, angles, etc. of each sections, they seem to be very similar between the two burr sets. So it is safe to assume that they will perform fairly similar in particle distribution.

Now why were e.g. Lance or James raving about the Core burrs, with Lance even calling them his choice of burrs if he'd have to live with just 1 set, when now we see some less than stellar feedback on the 078s?

Well to do so I recommend first going back to Lance's review of the Weber EG-1 as well as James review on it as well as his Grinder showdown to see what they are actually saying.

They say that the Core burrs are great all-rounder (or hybrid) burr sets that performs well for both espresso as well as pour-over. However, it's not the be all end all burr set for pour over because they are specifically less "unimodal", aka has a more broad particle distribution. I mean it even says "Medium Fines" on it. And that's why it's also not providing the most clarity for people that prefer more clarity and less texture in their espresso shots. So the reason Lance says it's his pick of burrs if he'd have to choose just 1 is not because they are perfect for pour overs or they provide excellent clarity in espresso (because they don't), but because they can do it all reasonably well.

When you translate this over to the current reviews and opinions on the 078s out there it's essentially the same. People love the high uniformity of the non-s 078 for pour over and they all rave about it. It's perfect so to speak. But it only applies to pour overs. When it comes to the 078s, while it can do it, obviously it's gonna disappoint for pour overs in comparison to the 078 or other high uniformity burrs. It will be good, but just not perfect. When it comes to espresso, it certainly performs very well too. It's probably well balanced, has good texture, sweetness and good clarity, just as the Weber Core burrs. However, if you want a high clarity espresso shot, there will be better burr sets with higher uniformity out there, though those will then provide less texture and body. Same goes for people who absolutely prefer the latter. You'd probably be better off just sticking with conical burrs in that case.

So there you have it. Just as it turns out that the Weber Core burrs can't be perfect at everything, the 078s are surely going to end up being good all-rounders that do everything you throw at them really well. But they won't excel in some areas, where more specialized burrs will be needed, which in turn will have their own downsides.

People just have to be realistic about their expectations and realize that there can't be a perfect all-round burr set. All-round or "hybrid", as James puts it, will always have some trade-offs. It will never beat more specialized burr sets for their specialized applications or tastes. But just because it cannot be perfect 10/10 in just a few of the categories, doesn't mean it can't be a great 8 or 9/10 in many categories.

Summary: If you want a great all-rounder for pour over and espresso, that is well balanced, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the 064s/078s. If clarity is your one priority however, you're probably better off getting high uniformity 64mm burrs or something else.

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#660: Post by bringyoutomyhell »

Except, it will be nothing like the Weber Core. This has already been established. Taste wise, in espresso the 078S will taste like a Lagom Mini/Comandante C40/Kingrinder K6/1Zpresso K-series etc. It will not be bad, it will be traditional leaning with a bit of acidity. I wouldn't complain. I went with 078 + 064S after the reviews though. I suppose it'll be cheaper live in the 64mm ecosystem if I want to change burrs