superworrier wrote:It prob depends. For me, I don't really like MP profile but the 078 profile sounds pretty good to me. Some people claim the Zerno pre-breakers and slow feeding auger would make it have superior grind quality to other 64mm grinders, but we can call it speculation for now. I ended up with 078/078s pair, but I wasn't really paying much attention to the Zerno.

Not sure what you mean about 64s not having espresso range issue. I think some espresso range complaints on 078s may be relating to using 078s burrs on the 078 model, which doesn't have the additional markers in the bottom of the range. But I may have missed something since I didn't play close attention to 064s reviews

I hear you on the MP profile. I don't know how to interpret the favorable reviews of the 78 from folks who otherwise enjoy the MP (Lance/Kyle). That said, they both seem to prefer it to the MP and their turbo descriptions sound better than the MP to me.

RE: espresso range, agree the issue could be the use of 78 bodies as review samples (not stepless). Though i did see one review complaining of the same with an actual 78S - again where the challenge was a very narrow usable band, dial markings aside. I'll try to remember where i saw it. FWIW, Timemore has said they are coming out with an "accessory dial" to improve espresso dialing...tbd what that means.

I also think there is also a solid chance the "issue" is overstated. I use a VERY narrow band of ~14-20 for basically all espresso on my Niche....My guess is your 78/78S combo will rock. You've got me second-guessing myself, again. Good thing grinders are not tattoos- none of these choices are permanent!

Philhmartin wrote:Personally I'd go 78S. It will still make good filter, gives you optionality for espresso (both burr and step less) and can eventually take the aturbo 78 burr.

While Lance/Kyle both preferred the 78 and MP burrs, at least the latter said the 78S made better filter than the Ode Gen2 (which for me would prob beat out the MP). In short, until the 78 turbo burrs are out, the 78S on its own will make great filter. I've read at least one review online of folks who preferred the 78S filter (some coffee shop in Asia, can't remember the specifics) and one who wasn't a fan of the 78 (coffee chronicler, who actually raved about the 64S, similar to Sprometheus). Both CC/Sprometheus seem to have a slightly different palate that doesn't prioritize clarity as the be all and end all. At least as I perceive it.

That's what I've been thinking, thank you so much!

Oh yeah, Don't get me wrong - I almost pushed the button on a Zerno instead of getting the 78s. The Zerno looks so satisfying to use and I especially like the micron grind adjustment. I just couldn't spend that kind of money on a grinder when I think the 78s still has alot of potential. I also think grinder workflow is in a state of change right now (thankfully) so I'm hoping this means I'll feel less guilty about catching the next wave.

It's pretty amazing (and overdue) how much the market has changed. When I bought my Niche a few years back there were basically NO options truly focused on single dosing.

Philhmartin wrote:I hear you on the MP profile. I don't know how to interpret the favorable reviews of the 78 from folks who otherwise enjoy the MP (Lance/Kyle). That said, they both seem to prefer it to the MP and their turbo descriptions sound better than the MP to me.

RE: espresso range, agree the issue could be the use of 78 bodies as review samples (not stepless). Though i did see one review complaining of the same with an actual 78S - again where the challenge was a very narrow usable band, dial markings aside. I'll try to remember where i saw it. FWIW, Timemore has said they are coming out with an "accessory dial" to improve espresso dialing...tbd what that means.

I also think there is also a solid chance the "issue" is overstated. I use a VERY narrow band of ~14-20 for basically all espresso on my Niche....My guess is your 78/78S combo will rock. You've got me second-guessing myself, again. Good thing grinders are not tattoos- none of these choices are permanent!

Yeah, it is peculiar because the MP sounds pretty different than the turbo.

A vernier scale would be pretty cool. I think someone (Kyle?) said they used .6-1.6 for their beans, which doesn't seem crazy small to me. I'm basically on the same setting as you for the Niche. I'm sure your Z1 will rock too. usually, when something is a tough decision, it's because both choices are good.

Philhmartin wrote:Personally I'd go 78S. It will still make good filter, gives you optionality for espresso (both burr and step less) and can eventually take the aturbo 78 burr.

While Lance/Kyle both preferred the 78 and MP burrs, at least the latter said the 78S made better filter than the Ode Gen2 (which for me would prob beat out the MP). In short, until the 78 turbo burrs are out, the 78S on its own will make great filter. I've read at least one review online of folks who preferred the 78S filter (some coffee shop in Asia, can't remember the specifics) and one who wasn't a fan of the 78 (coffee chronicler, who actually raved about the 64S, similar to Sprometheus). Both CC/Sprometheus seem to have a slightly different palate that doesn't prioritize clarity as the be all and end all. At least as I perceive it.

Generally those who prefer the 078s have been more dark in roast. Lance, Kyle on the other hand are much lighter in their preference and I think it plays a crucial role in why they prefer 078.

Lance didn't particularly like the 078s so the opinion of its filter is diversified and could also depend on how you do brew and how hard you push them as with Ode v2 it seem like higher extraction introduces some astringency.

Sprometheus aren't particularly light, so that probably explains his choices. The CC are actually the only one who really drinks light that didn't prefer 078 that is kinda interesting.

The MP I never truly understood the hype, it's incredibly one dimensional. The MP/UM is clarity, acidity and forward of the higher notes, everything else is pushed in the background that means certain defects are harder to detect and certain processing methods and beans those just don't come to full potential. I always found Cast the better one, as it has the whole palette but it doing so it sacrifices some clarity and acidity, on the other hand it's sweeter and juicier that means it handles darker roast better. I heard Mizen should gain some clarity but otherwise be in somewhat the same ballpark. I think the 078 might have somewhat similar characteristics as it broadcasts the range but sacrifices on some acidity and clarity, this is certainly what I concluded after listening and reading experience with the burr.

I don't doubt the Zerno is more pleasing and easier to use even Lance said so much whether it's 3x the price worth it is probably debatable. I think the 078(s) got hit a bit by the hype train, much the same way the Zero did around release. It look like great value for money but also it has its quirks like the changing and cleaning burr is a massive faff, rotational knocker is definitely going to divide the waters and seem mostly a gain for filter for espresso I think It might be a bit of a pain, the beans hopping and dancing everywhere the need to
Push the beans because these get stuck because the slope in the hopper isn't steep enough, the limits on range. As I said there certainly compromises and the fact Timemore now advertises add on range additional purchase, something that is bound to be found in release versions means I just play the waiting game because I think it's high probability they fix some of this on the official release version just as Fellow did or in a later V2

Really good thoughts here, well said.

Agree we'll likely see a version 2 of the sculptor soon (both because of the hopper issues that seem similar to Ode gen 1, and because Timemore is already talking about dial mods for espresso).

superworrier wrote:Yeah, it is peculiar because the MP sounds pretty different than the turbo.

A vernier scale would be pretty cool. I think someone (Kyle?) said they used .6-1.6 for their beans, which doesn't seem crazy small to me. I'm basically on the same setting as you for the Niche. I'm sure your Z1 will rock too. usually, when something is a tough decision, it's because both choices are good.

Agreed! Look forward to comparing experiences when both of our grinders arrive.

I have to say I'm very impressed by the HB forum. I've been a longtime lurker and this thread is the first time I posted. Felt like I had gone on too long without participating! The thoughtfulness of the comments and overall tone are really fantastic. Great to "meet" you all.

Has anyone received the survey to choose the color? It was supposed to be sent before May 22.

ppaolo2 wrote:Has anyone received the survey to choose the color? It was supposed to be send before May 22.

It will be send out to backers may 22