New Timemore Sculptor Grinders 064 064s 078 078s - Page 7

#61: Post by **boren** » March 18th, 2023, 3:13 am

@marcoffee - do you plan to also try the 078s burrs? According to ourcoffeeshelter on Instagram, the 078s burrs produced better pourover coffee than the 078 burrs.

Also, do you think that 800 RPM as a low limit is sufficient? Many grinders with variable RPM can go a lot lower.

#62: Post by **DenisSabou** » March 18th, 2023, 3:27 am

Sounds like you are having some troubles finding outstanding beans to brew, and that is not a problem of the grinder so to speak.

Also I wonder if the osmotic flow is more suited towards a more develop style of roasting rather than the lightest stuff around. I'm saying this because I also tried the osmotic flow one year ago and reading about it it seems that it's made/used a lot by cafec, oldschool japanese technique, and they use dark roasted beans for brewing.

My experience is zero with more developed beans on 078 and I have been using it since November 2022 for more than 500 brews by now. I only use what most consider nordic scandinavian beans roated by myself or by Tim Wendelboe, Kaffa, Jacu, and other nordic roasters who roast pretty much light.

For washed beans and those type of roasts, having a really gentle slow dripping flow doesnt bring out the full potential taste/flavor from the beans, but rather produces a tea like, lacking brew. I am not questioning your methods or findings, i'm just posting what that type of brew does for me. I find osmotic flow and things like mellow drip to work better on more developed heavy processed beans as it cuts down the body and lets you taste under the funk.

For me with 078 there are 2 ways of brewing with great great results:

a. similar to Lance Hedrick - on washed beans- v60- 16 to 1 ratio, hot water 98-100C grind fine: from 5.5 to 6.5 on dial (cupping is at 5). You do 1 bloom with WDT tool for 45 sec and then one single pour at 5-6g/s up to 16 ratio. Brew time finishes at 2:35-3 min. No swirls.

b. similar to Substance Cafe Paris by Joachim- coarser grind size (this would be 13-14 on Sculptor) and you split it in 5 or 6 equal pours, the water temperature is 90-93C and for this method the most important part is keeping the kettle spout close to the bend but inducing a circular high flow motion to the bed, like pumping a lot of water into the bed from an angle.

The first method extracts more, and it works on super light stuff dense beans, while the second method is better all around. You cant brew a natural with the first method as it will be too heavy.

As for the RPM I am not confident I can blind taste a brew at 800 or 1200rpm in a blind tasting. I use my grinder near 1000rpm.

#63: Post by **Primacog** » March 18th, 2023, 3:29 am

jfjj wrote:It looks more like a chaff collector than fines, but in the videos of reviews I do notice quite a bit of retention pre knock. So while i like the new knocker I am curious on the real world impact on retention. I would like it if just caught the chaff though.

I hope somebody will do a review of the 78s when it comes out to see just how much is the retention with or without the fines collector/knocker being operated. As a vertically orientated grinder? I would have hoped that retention ought to be lower so it would be disappointing if it retains a significant amount.

#64: Post by **Primacog** » March 18th, 2023, 3:32 am

EvanOz85 wrote:Is it actually a fines collector though? I've never seen Timemore marketing it as that. It appears to me to just be a different take on a knocker. The grounds I've seen ejected from it in various video are definitely not all fines. I've only seen one source claiming it's a fines collector, while everywhere else just says it's a knocker.

Good point - I went back to timemore's own ad and they did call it a knocker.

March 18th, 2023, 4:21 am

bgn wrote:The Timemore has variable speed? Or are you using a variac.

Yes both have variable rpm
800-1200rpm the 064/064S
800-1400rpm the 078/078S

#66: Post by **malling** » March 18th, 2023, 5:58 am

Primacog wrote:I hope somebody will do a review of the 78s when it comes out to see just how much is the retention with or without the fines collector/knocker being operated. As a vertically orientated grinder? I would have hoped that retention ought to be lower so it would be disappointing if it retains a significant amount.

All vertical I ever used retained some 0.3-0.5g in the chute due to static, without eliminating static it's bound to be upwards to like 0.5g it's the case with EK43, Ode and others I tried with that design. As this follows much a similar design approach I don't see how this could be any different, the same with Zerno. All of these are heavily inspired by the construction of the EK43. Only Nautilus seem to resolve this more or less entirely but that's one expensive grinder.

The ode had to install an ioniser to resolve it, Zerno is taking about that as well in theirs but this means you also get all that chaff and all those fines into your brew.

The static of vertical mounted burr results in messy grinder and stuck grind in the chute, those are well known challenge of that design. But at least we don't get regrinding issues and large retention in burr chambers as with horizontal mounting grinders, where that is one of its biggest challenges with that design. I always found same burr to offer more clarity on vertical mounting grinders, I gladly take the challenges that comes with that. It also tend to give an adjustment mechanism I find far more pleasant to use, downside is however resolution in espresso range on many of these (Titus and Zerno have both resolved this).

#67: Post by **Jonk** » March 18th, 2023, 6:29 am

DenisSabou wrote:Sounds like you are having some troubles finding outstanding beans to brew, and that is not a problem of the grinder so to speak.

It's relevant though. Some grinders/burrs are more forgiving and can even produce something quite tasty out of less than great beans. The ghost burrs in my Fuji Royal is one example, the trade-off in that case being that they're not great with outstanding, light beans.

The 64mm SSP Brew Marc refers to are already quite picky burrs in my experience, though bitterness is definitely reduced even with dark roasts for pour over.

I hope the retention will be less than 0.5g for espresso, otherwise it's no better than an Ode. Workable, but not great.

March 18th, 2023, 7:54 am

Burrs that are more unimodal are just less forgiving to roast, processing and beans defect as well as overall quality. So getting away with less then optimal coffee is just not what should be expected from these type of burrs.

The SSP 64mm MP/UM are flawed, somehow they seem to hide certain roast defects, I noticed this when compared to the Cast that showed the roasting defect! Those not very good as cupping burrs where you want the burrs to showcase everything not masking it.

There is a difference on where retention is located, in the ode it get stuck inside the main housing meaning it's hard to get out even with bellows. On an EK it's getting stuck mainly in the chute, smack it a few times and you get everything out except around 0.1g.

Many of these SD grinders no matter cost got 0.3-0.6g or thereabouts of retention in the chute, hardly any can brag about 0.1g without smacking or taking the chute off. The Ode is more like 0.5-1g retention on espresso.

In other words if it's located in the chute around the knocking device you can get it easily out so if's 0.5g retention it's not really an issue as you can get it easily out. The problem arises when it's in the burr chamber or in the pre breaking area of a vertical mounted burr grinder.

#69: Post by **ibsprocket** » March 18th, 2023, 8:39 am

Primacog wrote:I hope somebody will do a review of the 78s when it comes out to see just how much is the retention with or without the fines collector/knocker being operated. As a vertically orientated grinder? I would have hoped that retention ought to be lower so it would be disappointing if it retains a significant amount.

For what it's worth, which is likely not much, someone asked on FB what the retention is, and Timemore stated <0.1g on average

#70: Post by **ibsprocket** » March 18th, 2023, 8:44 am

DenisSabou wrote:
My experience is zero with more developed beans on 078 and I have been using it since November 2022 for more than 500 brews by now. I only use what most consider nordic scandinavian beans roated by myself or by Tim Wendelboe, Kaffa, Jacu, and other nordic roasters who roast pretty much light.

I'm generally brewing the same style of beans. Thank you for your feedback. How would you compare the results from the 078 to other grinders you have used in the past for light roasts?